Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By TC_LTN
#1740891
The scale of the infringement issue at Barton=

Image

The response to the issue = 29 pages

Is it just mid-winter or do we need to get things into proportion?

I wonder how many of the people that contributed to this debate have responded to the CAA Airspace Review consultation?

I wonder if our collective angst is corralled and directed as effectively in support of our passion as it could be?

Edited to assist @Rob L in his dotage ;-)
Last edited by TC_LTN on Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bookworm, Rob L liked this
User avatar
By Dave W
#1740893
On the plus side, at least it the thread showed an eagerness to learn and clarify an anomaly between custom & practice and the emerging interpretation of the law.

It would be a lot more concerning if people didn't care!
PaulB, Lockhaven, TopCat and 1 others liked this
User avatar
By Flyingfemme
#1740894
1-2 a month doesn't sound bad for such a constrained, busy bit of airspace. And why are the locals the major offenders? Seems like a bit of a case of, "physician, heal thyself".
User avatar
By TC_LTN
#1740896
Dave W wrote:On the plus side, at least it the thread showed an eagerness to learn and clarify an anomaly between custom & practice and the emerging interpretation of the law.

It would be a lot more concerning if people didn't care!


My concern is that they (we) need to care as passionately and vocally about issues and opportunities that have far greater consequences. As an example, the airspace review consultation is an initiative driven directly by the Secretary of State with a view to driving real and immediate change with reference to airspace design, containment, classification and funneling. I have personally got some real concerns about the quality of the consultation in support of those noble aims but have witnessed little of the passion and debate about this very important issue in comparison with that generated about a very tiny proportion of Barton's annual movements.
User avatar
By Dave W
#1740900
It's not zero sum though.

Commenting on one doesn't preclude commenting on the other.
There is a thread on the Airspace Review (including blah on SkyDemon T&Cs, bizarrely). Several posters noted that it is difficult to comment effectively on the Review due to perceived issues of clarity and limited detail in the reference information.
User avatar
By G-BLEW
#1740907
Several posters noted that it is difficult to comment effectively on the Review due to perceived issues of clarity and limited detail in the reference information.


It is a truly awful piece of work that screams 'we're making it as hard as possible so that we have to change as little as possible' I imagine AOPA, the LAA, BMAA, BGA and others will be protesting loudly. I certainly plan to…

Ian
User avatar
By G-BLEW
#1740941
Rob L wrote:What on earth is this about?

TC_LTN, give us a clue.

[Edit: I see it's about Barton (again); but it's not obvious :| ]


I think TC_LTN is pointing out that there's a lot of time and effort being put into Barton by forumites, while the airspace review, something that could be great for all of us (and that has been presented in a really lacklustre manner by the CAA) hasn't received nearly as much energy.

Ian
TC_LTN, Flyin'Dutch', kanga liked this
By PaulB
#1740953
I looked at it and thought what can little old me do? It's much as G-BLEW described above....
User avatar
By Tim Dawson
#1740954
Everyone who read that consultation document and thought “how can I possibly consult when presented with such awful data” should respond to the consultation saying that. That should be everyone.

Then perhaps they will reissue the consultation with some fit-for-purpose data.
G-BLEW, T67M, mmcp42 and 3 others liked this
User avatar
By skydriller
#1741008
G-BLEW wrote:
Rob L wrote:What on earth is this about?

TC_LTN, give us a clue.

[Edit: I see it's about Barton (again); but it's not obvious :| ]


I think TC_LTN is pointing out that there's a lot of time and effort being put into Barton by forumites, while the airspace review, something that could be great for all of us (and that has been presented in a really lacklustre manner by the CAA) hasn't received nearly as much energy.

Ian


Surely the reason that the Barton thing gained so much scrutiny and comment is because it is the result of possibly the biggest thing to happen to GA in the UK in the last few years, airspace, airspace infringement, and the CAA policy regarding infringements. In my view the airspace review is part of this too, as is ATC service provision. You cant separate any of it from that Barton thread, its all interconnected.

But as I said elsewhere, in my corner of france this doesnt directly affect me, but as a Brit I wouldnt like the UK to be seen as a "do not visit" country for GA.

Regards, SD..
flybymike liked this
User avatar
By James Chan
#1741015
It's quite bad data, but there are still general points worth making on airspace classification and what justifies it.

A lot of typing efforts can be better redirected, indeed.
User avatar
By G-BLEW
#1741129
skydriller wrote:Surely the reason that the Barton thing gained so much scrutiny and comment is because it is the result of possibly the biggest thing to happen to GA in the UK in the last few years, airspace, airspace infringement, and the CAA policy regarding infringements.


I wonder if you think it's possibly the biggest thing to happen in UK GA because of this and other forums? It's obviously important, but not even a contender for the top five or ten biggest things IMHO.

Ian
PaulB, Flyin'Dutch', TC_LTN liked this
User avatar
By skydriller
#1741264
G-BLEW wrote:I wonder if you think it's possibly the biggest thing to happen in UK GA because of this and other forums? It's obviously important, but not even a contender for the top five or ten biggest things IMHO.

Ian


So what would you say are your top ten then?

For me personally, Brexit, or at least immunising my situation against any possible fallout, has affected me most in the last year or so. But presumably the average UK PPL living in the UK is not likely to suffer fallout at all.

Regards, SD..
User avatar
By G-BLEW
#1741298
skydriller wrote:So what would you say are your top ten then?


Without trawling back through the news and definitely not in any order…

Positives

- Establishment of GA unit at CAA
- Patrick Ky remaining in post at EASA and supporting GA
- Introduction of PMD
- Permit night and IFR
- At last, approval of RNAV approaches to non instrument runways
- Pro aviation SofS at DfT
- Approval of non TSO kit meaning lower cost avionics

Negatives

- Approval of Farnborough's controlled airspace
- Reduction in LARS availability (eg Bristol)
- Continued resistance from certain fifth columnists within the CAA
- Shortages of ATC and imagination leading to some restrictions of flying at some airfields

I'm sure there's more

Brgds

Ian