Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By callump
#1733317
the last airfield I know which offered one milers was Coventry which is no longer ATC

They used to have 1nm SRAs at Teesside until they were withdrawn 3 yrs ago leaving just the 2nm SRA. It was mainly because there is no real demand for them, and staffing means they’d rarely be available anyway (anything less than 2nm has to be done by a separate controller) it also transpired there wasn’t the requisite radar reflector in place.
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By AlanM
#1733318
callump wrote:
the last airfield I know which offered one milers was Coventry which is no longer ATC

They used to have 1nm SRAs at Teesside until they were withdrawn 3 yrs ago leaving just the 2nm SRA. It was mainly because there is no real demand for them, and staffing means they’d rarely be available anyway (anything less than 2nm has to be done by a separate controller) it also transpired there wasn’t the requisite radar reflector in place.


So, a (part) cost £ based decision....
By chevvron
#1733442
callump wrote:
the last airfield I know which offered one milers was Coventry which is no longer ATC

They used to have 1nm SRAs at Teesside until they were withdrawn 3 yrs ago leaving just the 2nm SRA. It was mainly because there is no real demand for them, and staffing means they’d rarely be available anyway (anything less than 2nm has to be done by a separate controller) it also transpired there wasn’t the requisite radar reflector in place.

2 mile SRAs don't require any setting up markers specific to a particular runway permanent or otherwise but the radar display must have some sort of permanent markers to ensure it is correctly set up.
One of the setting up markers for Farnborough's ASR10 is Canary Wharf Tower; the people installing the radar wanted us to use a gasholder in Aldershot until I pointed out it was in the process of being demolished!
On the 'old' AR1 and Watchman radars, one of the markers was the water tower at Greenham Common!
By callump
#1733572
chevvron wrote:
callump wrote:
the last airfield I know which offered one milers was Coventry which is no longer ATC

They used to have 1nm SRAs at Teesside until they were withdrawn 3 yrs ago leaving just the 2nm SRA. It was mainly because there is no real demand for them, and staffing means they’d rarely be available anyway (anything less than 2nm has to be done by a separate controller) it also transpired there wasn’t the requisite radar reflector in place.

2 mile SRAs don't require any setting up markers specific to a particular runway permanent or otherwise but the radar display must have some sort of permanent markers to ensure it is correctly set up.
One of the setting up markers for Farnborough's ASR10 is Canary Wharf Tower; the people installing the radar wanted us to use a gasholder in Aldershot until I pointed out it was in the process of being demolished!
On the 'old' AR1 and Watchman radars, one of the markers was the water tower at Greenham Common!


Yes we still have various permanent echos such as tall buildings etc visible by selecting background video (still using the trusty watchman). I’m not sure whether the new ‘fully processed’ terma radar will have the option to show PEs for alignment though.
By callump
#1733585
Talkdownman wrote:
callump wrote:the new ‘fully processed’ terma radar will have the option to show PEs for alignment though.

Processed radar will never catch on...


I’m of the opinion it’s highly overrated!
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By chevvron
#1733722
callump wrote:
Yes we still have various permanent echos such as tall buildings etc visible by selecting background video (still using the trusty watchman). I’m not sure whether the new ‘fully processed’ terma radar will have the option to show PEs for alignment though.

When the ASR10 was installed at Farnborough the NATS techies doing the installation designed in small areas around the PEs (about half a mile radius) in which background returns were not cancelled out so we could check the setting up PEs.
Unfortunately we 'lost' other features where we could previously see moving objects on the ground with the AR1 and Watchman, these being traffic along the 'Hogs Back '(a ridge west of Guildford with a busy main road along the top), traffic on the M3 motorway on the hill up to Bagshot VRP and trains on the embankment west of Farnborough Main railway station.
Last edited by chevvron on Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By chevvron
#1733723
Talkdownman wrote:
callump wrote:
Talkdownman wrote:Processed radar


I’m of the opinion it’s highly overrated!

Two words: 'Track Jitter'...

As I said before, with a processed radar the possibility of track jitter would make me feel 'unsafe' doing an SRA to less than 2nm.
Last edited by chevvron on Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
By callump
#1733747
chevvron wrote:
When the ASR10 was installed at Farnborough the NATS techies doing the installation designed in small areas around the PEs (about half a mile radius) in which background returns were not cancelled out so we could check the setting up PEs.


That’s interesting, I suspect something similar could be done here.

chevvron wrote:As I said before, with a processed radar the possibility of track jitter would make me feel 'unsafe' doing an SRA to less then 2nm.


That’s one concern, another is the fact it makes it more difficult to assess which contacts are weather or spurious returns because they’ll all look the same.
By chevvron
#1733748
callump wrote:
chevvron wrote:

As I said before, with a processed radar the possibility of track jitter would make me feel 'unsafe' doing an SRA to less then 2nm.


That’s one concern, another is the fact it makes it more difficult to assess which contacts are weather or spurious returns because they’ll all look the same.

You shoudn't need to bother about weather, they usually cancel that out by setting a threshold speed of between 30 and 50 kts ie anything moving slower than the threshold speed (including microlights and powered parachutes) will not appear on your display.
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By Talkdownman
#1734010
callump wrote:vectoring airliners in class G.

Under EASA that’s supposed to be verboten from some date in 2020. They say vectoring only in CAS..
By callump
#1734047
Talkdownman wrote:
callump wrote:vectoring airliners in class G.

Under EASA that’s supposed to be verboten from some date in 2020. They say vectoring only in CAS..


I look forward to that but unless the CAA are planning some sort of non-compliance of that rule, I would have thought all the additional CAS needed to comply with that would have been designed ready for consultation by now.