Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By G-JWTP
#1716204
PaulB wrote:So does a leading UK GA magazine need to ask the CAA what happens about them and how many get completed?



No need.

LAA rally in a couple of days.

If everyone went and asked all those on the CAA stand what happens to them.
Then I guarantee after abut an hour of this interrogation you'd find out and they'd end up doing something about it.

G-JWTP
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By ls8pilot
#1716302
G-JWTP wrote:
PaulB wrote:So does a leading UK GA magazine need to ask the CAA what happens about them and how many get completed?


No need.
LAA rally in a couple of days.
If everyone went and asked all those on the CAA stand what happens to them.
Then I guarantee after abut an hour of this interrogation you'd find out and they'd end up doing something about it.

G-JWTP


I wonder if there is an attitude & familiarity problem here ? How much to ATC staff get taught about GA? I know some are GA pilots themselves, but watching my recording of the episode 3 of the BBC "Skies" program I was rather worried to hear the NATS guy say he would never fly in a GA aircraft as they were "too small" and his colleague tell us how dangerous GA aircraft were as they are "not properly maintained" and "only have one engine and one pilot"....... no wonder they don't want us in their nice airspace where we might just fall apart and rain bits down on peoples heads :D

Seriously I have to assume this was BBC looking to make the program more sensational (the same one in which they referred to Class G as "Uncontrolled" and "Chaotic").

I think a few people here are involved in training ATC staff, so how much do they taught about GA /SSEA, Microlights, gliders, balloons etc and limitations of performance, pilot workload etc?
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By zhastaph
#1716316
2 weeks ago I went Dunkeswell to Gloucester at about 11:30 am local, asked for a transit through Bristol which they gave me, albeit I was asked to descend to 2,000' and then handed over to Tower.

For the return flight, which was 3pm local at 3,200' and 35 nm from their zone:

"Bristol Radar Golf Alpha Fox for a Zone Transit"
...
The reply "Golf Alpha Fox, Bristol aren't doing transits at this time" { End of Transmission :| }

So I popped the listening squawk on, descended to 1,400' and 'sneaked' under the CTA in amongst all the other traffic doing the same lunacy :(

... and sure enough "Golf Alpha Fox your 12 o'clock traffic 2 miles approaching at the same level as you"

Knocked the auto pilot off to avoid the twin heading straight for us.

only a minute later came the next call "Golf Alpha Fox just to remind you, the Bristol QNH is 1008" which I took to be a polite way of saying "You're getting rather close to our zone"

2 weeks later, I'm still seething now tbh Everywhere I go I ask for transits, specifically so that I don't end up in situations like that. I wouldn't mind so much, but to be just shot down with no negotiation or anything ... it's bad form!

And this time 2 bad things very nearly happened as a result :(

xtophe wrote: Have you thought about filling some FCS1521 forms ?


Thank you for the link btw I'd seen this before on another thread moaning about Bristol, but haven't got round to searching it out ...
By G-JWTP
#1716397
zhastaph wrote:2 weeks ago I went Dunkeswell to Gloucester at about 11:30 am local, asked for a transit through Bristol which they gave me, albeit I was asked to descend to 2,000' and then handed over to Tower.

For the return flight, which was 3pm local at 3,200' and 35 nm from their zone:

"Bristol Radar Golf Alpha Fox for a Zone Transit"
...
The reply "Golf Alpha Fox, Bristol aren't doing transits at this time" { End of Transmission :| }

So I popped the listening squawk on, descended to 1,400' and 'sneaked' under the CTA in amongst all the other traffic doing the same lunacy :(

... and sure enough "Golf Alpha Fox your 12 o'clock traffic 2 miles approaching at the same level as you"

Knocked the auto pilot off to avoid the twin heading straight for us.

only a minute later came the next call "Golf Alpha Fox just to remind you, the Bristol QNH is 1008" which I took to be a polite way of saying "You're getting rather close to our zone"

2 weeks later, I'm still seething now tbh Everywhere I go I ask for transits, specifically so that I don't end up in situations like that. I wouldn't mind so much, but to be just shot down with no negotiation or anything ... it's bad form!

And this time 2 bad things very nearly happened as a result :(

xtophe wrote: Have you thought about filling some FCS1521 forms ?


Thank you for the link btw I'd seen this before on another thread moaning about Bristol, but haven't got round to searching it out ...


Fill out the form, and if you are at the LAA rally over the weekend, print it out and give it to the CAA personally. Don't forget to ask for a receipt.

They'll love that.

G-JWTP
By B1engineer
#1716401
Perhaps submitting airprox reports, mor's (about lack of service and danger of collision around Bristol zone) and even submitting chirps may highlight the issues more. I've not attempted a Bristol transit, but regularly transit solent. Only refused once and started to route around only to be given a clearance to cut the corner shortly after.
As said on here bristol no busier than other regional airports so what is the issue??
If I attempt a bristol transit I will submit the above reports if refused!
B1
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By PaulB
#1716442
Presumably in the future when they say that they aren't doing transits at the moment we need to ask why but will probably be told controller workload.
#1733764
I was out instructing yesterday evening and we popped up with Bristol and asked for a transit VFR at 3000’ Clifton Suspension Bridge direct Cheddar and the clearance was granted with no drama. Just instructed us to stay east of the field.

:thumright:
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By A le Ron
#1733812
David Wood wrote:Glad to hear it. I've had that too from time to time. Then at other times a blank No.

Me too. There is no conception of operating it as class D.
By Boxkite
#1733842
Instructor Errant wrote:I was out instructing yesterday evening and we popped up with Bristol and asked for a transit VFR at 3000’ Clifton Suspension Bridge direct Cheddar and the clearance was granted with no drama. Just instructed us to stay east of the field.

:thumright:

I wonder what the result would have been if it had been daylight and at 2000ft because of cloud cover.....
#1733873
Boxkite wrote:I wonder what the result would have been if it had been daylight and at 2000ft because of cloud cover.....


I shall try that at a suitable time and report back. I tend to listen to channel 136.080 if they are busy to build a picture of the orange/blue tubes departing POMAX to build some situational awareness of what is going on...
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By Dave W
#1733875
A le Ron wrote:There is no conception of operating it as class D.

A SARG policy statement from November 2014, "THE APPLICATION OF ICAO AIRSPACE CLASSIFICATIONS IN UK FLIGHT INFORMATION REGIONS" states:

SARG wrote:4.1 Airspace classifications applied to a particular volume of airspace are to be supported with the requisite navigational infrastructure and air traffic services to provide for access by all classes of flights appropriate to the airspace classification.

(My bold)
By Stu B
#1733886
How about trying "Copied; please make a note of the circumstances so I can call you on the landline when I've landed and get the full details for the report I will need to file"?
By rdfb
#1733905
Stu B wrote:How about trying "Copied; please make a note of the circumstances so I can call you on the landline when I've landed and get the full details for the report I will need to file"?


That sounds snarky to me. What's the real purpose of saying that on the radio? Just file the report afterwards.
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