Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Brooklands
#1699814
I think there are two considerations, beyond what the rules say is mandatory and what is optional, if you are aked to produce the documents by an official:

    [1] What documents does the official want to see
    [2] Is your grasp of his/her native language good enough to convince him/her that are mistaken because you aren't required to carry all of them

Brooklands
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By davef77
#1699824
Maxthelion wrote::thumleft: Good luck at the Internationals Dave, we're rooting for you. :thumleft:


Thanks!

I am nervous and excited in equal measure, team training was blown out of the water this week by the rotten weather, but otherwise the training has been great. I think that I can see a difference in my flying.
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By davef77
#1699825
Thanks everyone for the advice.

I really dislike the bureaucracy of all of this and think it has no bearing on safety, but will of course comply.

Thanks for the help.
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By mmcp42
#1699826
so does that mean airliners carry all those original documents?
are they stored in an on-board safe?
or passed from crew to crew?
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By davef77
#1699843
Dave W wrote:Page 157 of The SkyWay Code specifies originals of Cert of Airworthiness (or Permit) and Cert of Registration, and also lists a comprehensive list of other docs. Obviously passport and licence must be originals, too.

Have a rummage in here as well:
http://www.tinyurl.com/GoingForeign


@Dave W I should have remembered to look it up in the Skyway code, sorry.

But all of this information was extremely helpful. The "GoingForeign" website is just what I needed.

Thanks very much indeed for the help.
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By rdfb
#1700163
RisePilot wrote:Authentication of electronic versions of items such as legal documents, records (or even concert tickets) is where I believe blockchain technology will find its "real" usefulness - not so much for things such as Bitcoin.


Authentication of digital documents can be done perfectly well without "blockchain". Plain old digital signatures, as invented (publicly) in 1977, work just fine. In fact, Bitcoin and other "blockchain technologies" even use plain old digital signatures to authenticate that individual transactions are authorised.
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By matthew_w100
#1700170
*Why* do we have to carry all this documentation? Are fake aeroplanes really such a big problem? Or is it just that someone in 1930 thought it might be helpful and now officialdom loves it because it gives them something they can demand?
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By davef77
#1700226
matthew_w100 wrote:*Why* do we have to carry all this documentation? Are fake aeroplanes really such a big problem? Or is it just that someone in 1930 thought it might be helpful and now officialdom loves it because it gives them something they can demand?


Not the 1930s. There was no need to carry anything, except charts which seems reasonable, until fairly recently.

I think this stuff only became mandatory with either JAA or EASA.

It seems to me to be one of the distinguishing characteristics of bureaucracy that the rules are optimised for the benefit of the bureaucrats not the participants.

There is clearly no safety benefit, or advantage to pilots operators or airfields, the only use that I can imagine for this is, as you say, to make it easy to carry out a ramp-check. So for that vanishingly small purpose we are forced to carry important documents in an insecure place.

Seems very stupid, optimising for the wrong thing, but typically bureaucratic to me.
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By Ridders
#1700237
davef77 wrote: There is clearly no safety benefit, or advantage to pilots operators or airfields, the only use that I can imagine for this is, as you say, to make it easy to carry out a ramp-check. So for that vanishingly small purpose we are forced to carry important documents in an insecure place.

Seems very stupid, optimising for the wrong thing, but typically bureaucratic to me.
Yus, can’t argue with that!

But remember it’s only for international travel. Within same FIR the requirements are quite different. Back In 2016 the CAA issued an IN reminding people that for EASA aircraft in the same FIR documents can be retained at ‘operating base’.

Skyway code page 21, documents to be carried:
For EASA aircraft under Part- NCO, you must always carry:
> Aircraft flight manual;
> Current charts;
> Interception procedures;
> Flight plan details (if one has been filed); and
> Minimum Equipment List (if you operate with one).

But going abroad the requirements are very different.
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By Pete L
#1700414
Dave W wrote:Page 157 of The SkyWay Code specifies originals of Cert of Airworthiness (or Permit) and Cert of Registration, and also lists a comprehensive list of other docs. Obviously passport and licence must be originals, too.

Have a rummage in here as well:
http://www.tinyurl.com/GoingForeign


Most of the documents for my EASA aircraft have only ever been issued in electronic form. That doesn't stop the CAA coming to see them every year :-)

On our trip to Venice I downloaded the lot to two phones and was prepared to argue the toss.
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By Longfinal
#1700428
Ridders wrote:
davef77 wrote: There is clearly no safety benefit, or advantage to pilots operators or airfields, the only use that I can imagine for this is, as you say, to make it easy to carry out a ramp-check. So for that vanishingly small purpose we are forced to carry important documents in an insecure place.

Seems very stupid, optimising for the wrong thing, but typically bureaucratic to me.
Yus, can’t argue with that!

But remember it’s only for international travel. Within same FIR the requirements are quite different. Back In 2016 the CAA issued an IN remindding people that for EASA aircraft in the same FIR documents can be retained at ‘operating base’.

Skyway code page 21, documents to be carried:
For EASA aircraft under Part- NCO, you must always carry:
> Aircraft flight manual;
> Current charts;
> Interception procedures;
> Flight plan details (if one has been filed); and
> Minimum Equipment List (if you operate with one).

But going abroad the requirements are very different.


Don’t forget, for EASA aircraft, you must also carry your licence and some photo ID on all flights.