Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Budgie
#1623271
Hi all, quick question as I am having a complete brain fade!!!! The process for recovery of an impending stall on the base to final turn is -

Pitch, power then roll?

Thanks,

B :roll:
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By Sooty25
#1623345
Try not to let it happen in the first place is a really good start. There's no real reason why you need to get so slow on base to final turn. Plan your circuit better, a little faster, wider turn and scrub the speed back when established on final. But also remain conscious of you flap limit speed.

If you do stall mid turn and it drops a wing, there's a good chance it'll get messy, so just don't go there.
By johnm
#1623347
As @Sooty25 said don't go there as the outcome is unlikely to be good. In desperation lower the nose, pile on the power then roll wings level and go around!
By Cessna57
#1623354
very early on in my training my FI turned to me during the final turn and said slowly and deliberately, completely deadpan, “and this is where you die”

Scared me momentarily, think it was meant to.

He then went on to explain how a stall at that point ends.
By Budgie
#1623357
Thanks all, apologies I should have explained.... I am a student and have just had a lesson on stalling. I was running through in my head the process once the stall Warner bleeps during the exercise and was getting in a muddle. I just wanted to confirm that it's pitch, power before you roll the wings level :D
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By Irv Lee
#1623364
Cessna57 wrote:very early on in my training my FI turned to me during the final turn and said slowly and deliberately, completely deadpan, “and this is where you die”

Scared me momentarily, think it was meant to.

He then went on to explain how a stall at that point ends.

Assuming a cessna, he might not have got to the explanation with someone quick and strong enough to flip his belt buckle and push him out.
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By Irv Lee
#1623380
Good to clarify things- think of a glider in a stall and somehow they recover from it... so the answer cannot be that power cures actual stalls as they don't have power. Reducing angle of attack cures stalls. A French commercial pilot thought that power cured stalls not too long ago and 200+ people died.
Also remember that the stall warner is also a pre-stall warner.... you should get it before the actual stall happens, so far too many pilots make what would be a dangerous recovery if the stall had happened, and it works, and they draw the conclusion that their non standard recover will cure a stall, not realising they were never stalled in the first place, they just had a stall warner sounding.
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By Balliol
#1623397
On recognising the signs of the approaching stall - normally in this case light buffet or continuous audio warner, you should carry out the standard stall recovery as you have been taught:

Move the control column centrally forward until the buffet and audio warning stops / simultaneously apply full power
Hold the resultant attitude
Level the wings if required
Ease out of the descent

A large control column input should not be required at the incipient stall stage as Irv says.

Good luck with your training - this will be one of the stalls you will have to demonstrate on skills test.
By iaindings
#1623446
One thing that your instructor should have explained is never to use aileron input in a stall - as it can worsen the stall. It's very possible that if you bank left and add right aileron to counteract it, you'll actually end up banking left even more

http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/ ... n-a-stall/

So you're recovering from the stall, then rolling level - you dont want to be using ailerons on a stalled wing, so get out of the stall first.

In your test you'll probably be asked to do 3 stalls

1 - Fully developed stall in the clean configuration. This is to test that you can properly recognize and react to the symptoms of the stall. Sometimes you'll find a wing starts to drop when you do this, you can counteract with rudder if you can but its not essential as it's easy enough to roll level once you've pitched down and added power
2 - Recovery at the first sign (eg stall warner) on the base to final turn configuration. This is to check that you don't try and roll the wings level during the stall and that you can properly climb away while putting the flaps away
3 - Recovery at the first sign of a stall on the final approach config (with drag flaps). This is mainly to check that you're not going to attempt to climb with full flaps deployed.
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By Cookie
#1625662
CAA guidance can be found in Handling Sense Leaflet 02: Stall/Spin Awareness which confirms @Balliol 's recommendation and is consistent with the current recovery technique taught.

Note that the recommended technique in the equivalent European safety leaflet produced by EGAST differs slightly, and is more akin to the recovery technique used in jet aeroplanes.

Cookie
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By T67M
#1625667
The EGAST document is certainly different! I don't think I fancy teaching someone a purely aerodynamic (no power) stall recovery in a light aircraft, and that document seems to be aimed squarely at light GA judging by the pictures and the tone of the text. Handling Sense Leaflet 02 is definitely more comfortable reading!
#1625678
I’m getting bored with saying “talk to your flying school” so I will just add that you have already done all this before. Ex 10 is slow flight including turns at 5kt above the stall. Ex 7 is climbing including with flaps. The aircraft hasn’t stalled yet and as you know can be controlled in a “slow flight” turn.
Make the noise stop (c/c forward slightly) and climb away. You know the power setting and nose attitude for a climb with flaps. Roll wings level when you judge it is safe to do so. If your instructor twitches, question your judgement!
As has already been said in real life what the hell is your nose doing above the horizon in the approach anyway?
Sort it out before you need to.
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By TopCat
#1625682
T67M wrote:The EGAST document is certainly different! I don't think I fancy teaching someone a purely aerodynamic (no power) stall recovery in a light aircraft

I'm curious why?

While stall recovery with minimum height loss is of course important when close to the ground, that's absolutely no reason to avoid stall recovery without power at a safe height.

If you're not already spinning, which is of course completely different, stall recovery at any attitude requires nothing more than easing the stick forward until the AoA reduces enough for the airflow to reattach.

Doing this without power and simply accepting the loss of height is a great confidence builder, as it demystifies the stall, reduces the workload, and if you approach the stall from a slow deceleration rather than from level flight where it all happens so quickly, there's plenty of time to explore the increasingly floppy controls, the pre-stall buffet, and the stall itself.