Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By lobstaboy
#1783378
Miscellaneous wrote:Interesting responses on this thread. Personally, at an A/R airfield, I don't think I would have given it much thought at all. Am I the only one? :?


No you're not. I agree. It wasn't good behaviour, certainly, but at a/g fields or safetycom strips it the sort of thing that happens not infrequently. It's bad airmanship but you have to expect the unexpected.

I'd also ask, what evidence has ROG offered to suggest that radio would have prevented this incident?
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By Miscellaneous
#1783382
Rob L wrote:
Miscellaneous wrote:...A/R airfield ...

That's another confusion; there is no such thing.

Misc, are you not following the gist of this thread? :)

Not that it was intentional, but is it not in keeping with thread? :D
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By Rob L
#1783393
Miscellaneous wrote:
Rob L wrote:
Miscellaneous wrote:...A/R airfield ...

That's another confusion; there is no such thing.

Misc, are you not following the gist of this thread? :)

Not that it was intentional, but is it not in keeping with thread? :D


It is! Hence my comment :D
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By PeteM
#1783395
Well at least ROG no longer types only in CAPITALS.

But the comment makes little sense - as he himself says he might have had a radio- then what iss the point of the whole post?

Someone did a midfied takeoff in front of ROG. Well not great airmanship, the worst he has experienced in x years - lucky man!

Spoke to ATC? Well obviously there was no "ATC"! Sounds like a typical a/g operation where a STOL aircraft less little point in a long backtrack.

Little to really gripe about really unless the description of the event is significantly corrected.
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By Miscellaneous
#1783396
@PeteM, @lobstaboy, can I clarify that it is not so much the practice you consider bad airmanship, more the failure to approve it with Rog?

Personally I consider it good practice providing all parties are in agreement. :D
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By lobstaboy
#1783400
Well I'm not entirely sure what actually happened. Did the other aircraft enter the runway after ROG had started his take off roll, or just queue jump ? The first is potentially dangerous, the second might well be sensible if it was the most expeditious way of getting both aeroplanes airborne.
In the second case I'd say it is arguable who was displaying poor airmanship. ROG seems to be admitting to a lack of awareness of another aeroplane that was in a position to be a problem to him - that doesn't sound good.
I read this as someone who is used to full ATC getting surprised when having to think for themselves.
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By Miscellaneous
#1783403
@lobstaboy gotcha, I read it that the taildragger had been sitting behind Rog at the hold and having sat and watched the 2 before Rog backtrack and take off individually, he decided to speed things up by backtracking behind Rog and taking off in front of him. I'm struggling to see anything actionable. I'd be a bit cheesed off he hadn't told me what he was doing, but not overly.

I did not read it that he entered the runway after Rog had started his take off roll.

You may have hit on something in suggesting Rog, being used to being controlled, was taken a little by surprise. :thumright: Chances are it was normal practice for the taildragger pilot and he would be totally perplexed at this thread. :D
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By ROG
#1783409
PLEASE READ EARLY PART OF THREAD. TO REPEAT --- I WAS ALREADY ROLLING AND I HAD ADVISED THAT ON MY RADIO WHEN HE APPEARED IN FRONT OF ME. I DO NOT HANG AROUND AT THE THRESHHOLD ,HAVING ALREADY DONE MY POWER CHECKS AT THE INTERSECTION
IN ANY EVENT HE COULD HAVE TAKEN OFF AT THE INTERSECTION LIKE ALL THE OTHER TAILDRAGGERS. I CANT SEE WHY HE WENT TO THE END OF THE RUNWAY-670 METRES TO TAKE OFF. (SCUSE CAPS).
I JUST WONDER IF THIS IS HIS NORMAL PRACTICE.
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By Rob L
#1783411
It would help if ROG identified the aircraft type he was flying.

It would help if ROG identified the airfield (without identifying the other aircraft, if that is possible).

It would also help if ROG fully understood the differences between ATC, AFIS and A/G and if he does, implement that knowledge before posting such an inflamatory thread :evil: That has not helped his cause.

I very often depart from the intersection of two runways at A/G airfields ahead of someone at the full-length holding point because:
1) It expedites all movements
2) It saves a lot of taxy time
3) Someone is probably awaiting an ATC clearance to enter the runway at an A/G airfield :roll:

(Admittedly I am in radio contact at all times).

I don't know ROG personally, but something has obviously upset his usual flying methodology.

Rob
By ninja-lewis
#1783441
As a non-radio pilot this bit stood out:

ROG wrote:I called xx rolling to let other pilots know exactly my intentions
I looked up the runway and started to move.
As i moved forward a taildragger appeared from my right in front of me. I managed to stop while he manoevered in front of m and then took off.
My peripheral vision is fine . I can only surmise that he taxied behind to take off and was about 80 degrees to the side.


Sounds like Aviate, Navigate, Communicate were in the wrong order here.
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By FlarePath
#1783462
Would like to ask if OP had made the common but unnecessary "ready for departure" call at an A/G field and having got "it" assumed the runway was his (I think he would be correct IMO) but if used to ATC didn't know/realise that no permissions to taxy/take off are required on an A/G field and didn't appreciate these "incidents" are not uncommon at such places, as seems from his comment he turned left as "instructed"