[T67M]

Some notes on threat and error management,

Thanks Mike, though that does seem to be a rather over-complicated way to say :

Plan the flight properly.
What might go wrong?
What will you do if it does?

Surely "Threat and Error Management" is shorter than "Plan the flight properly. What might go wrong? What will you do if it does?".

TEM is even shorter!

[Hooligan]

My experience of HR in the latter years was a constantly write and re-write of meaningless drivel, er, policy while managers performed all the functions of hiring (on boarding)/discipline (punition)/etc at the expense of running the projects their team were working on. The nuts and bolts of actually running pay (reward)/annual leave (furlough)/sick leave (unplanned absence)/etc was handed to the cheapest Indian bidder (off shored) whose delightful staff enjoyed talking (reaching out) to us, sadly sometimes not all that clearly (mutual incomprehension)...

Also the CAA advice document above is a thing of perfect clarity compared with the recruitment ads that our British HR people concocted. I made some derogatory comments about them to one of my senior colleagues and found myself in a meeting with him and an HR Business Partner (ugh!) - I took along one of our ads and one for precisely the same engineering role advertised by a competitor which clearly explained the position, the requirements and the rewards in three short paragraphs - ours was a very lengthy, pointless and meaningless jumble of terms like "behaviours" and didn't mention qualifications and experience - or maybe it did, I gave up trying to understand. They did improve after that meeting...

[Rant off]

[JAFO]

Some notes on threat and error management,

Thanks Mike, though that does seem to be a rather over-complicated way to say :

Plan the flight properly.
What might go wrong?
What will you do if it does?

Surely "Threat and Error Management" is shorter than "Plan the flight properly. What might go wrong? What will you do if it does?".

TEM is even shorter!

But, the thing is, you shouldn't even need to say TEM any more than you should have to remind a pilot to walk to the aircraft by placing one foot in front of the other and reminding them to breathe whilst doing so.

[johnm]

I well remember the chapter from Robert Townsend's book "Up the Organisation".

I paraphrase but you get the gist......

Close down the personnel department and put a personnel welfare officer on each site to ensure suitable working conditions. Do not let them talk to each other or they'll form a personnel department and you'll be back where you started...

Has the thread drifted far enough yet????

[GrahamB]

But, the thing is, you shouldn't even need to say TEM any more than you should have to remind a pilot to walk to the aircraft by placing one foot in front of the other and reminding them to breathe whilst doing so.

Agreed, you shouldn't need to, but even my relatively limited experience as a CRI tells me that you do more often than you'd think.

[Hooligan]

Do you need to worry about drift when you've got GPS?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Whilst not disagreeing that TEM is pointless and over-the-top jargon for something that should be seen as fundamentally embedded into good airmanship, it's been being shoved down all our throats for 10+ years, so I'm surprised anybody thinks it's new.

G

[Rob P]

it's been being shoved down all our throats for 10+ years

Not mine.

Your "all" is spurious

Rob P

[Flyin'Dutch']

All = prob 90 FIs and CRIs but as we know there may be variable rates of transmission downstream..

I suspect there are quite a few revalidation flights where the content is different to what the CAA had in mind.

I recently did a renewal by test in a non UK country and the examiner was at pains to make sure that we did everything according to the book as he said 'they* are so sad that they will look at radar traces to make sure all is done and the flight was long enough'

All fine by me but I don't hink in that particular jurisdiction GA drivers smash themselves up less often than in more liberal settings.

*the local NAA.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just trying to think when I first encountered the term.

Looking, it's not in my 2007 CPL course notes, nor my 2010 CRI course notes, but I think I did encounter it first circa 2011/12 on a CRM course that was basically an airline syllabus content I did for my then job. It is in the notes from an AOPA instructor refresher seminar I attended in 2014.

G

[MattL]

Airmanship is a part of TEM, not the other way round.

Having started a bit cynical myself, some years of experience with students and test candidates now has proven to me that (if done correctly) the way of thinking and attitude to flying that the TEM concept brings is actually really good. We actually teach students "why" and "how" and how to build judgement now, as opposed to just barking orders at them to do stuff.

The biggest issue with TEM is experienced people mouthing off around flying clubs about it being rubbish and undermining the whole culture.

[Wide-Body]

If you think TEM is pointless, you have just found the primary T.

[Genghis the Engineer]

If you think TEM is pointless, you have just found the primary T.

I don't think that anybody's saying TEM is pointless, just perhaps feeling that it's the introduction of terminology that is there for the sake of having even more specific words to quiz people on, rather than the discovery some grand new concept we'd all been missing for years.

G

[Dave W]

It's just a hook to hang exploitation of good practice on.

Like CRM was/is.

A means for enabling common understanding of techniques and learning development.

[skydriller]

it's been being shoved down all our throats for 10+ years

Not mine it hasnt or I wouldnt have brought it up. But then Im in France...

Regards, SD..