[Human Factor]

That’s correct. In BEA and BA, they flew with two first officers who rotated leg and leg about between the panel and right seat.

[Dave W]

I remember* Flight reporting, back in the early 80s, that when Air France introduced their first 2 crew cockpit aircraft the FEs' Union was sufficiently powerful that some types were fitted with a third seat behind the interseat console.

The FE's feet had nowhere to go, so stirrups were fitted on the inboard uprights of the Captain's and First Officer's seats. Not surprisngly, the FE could reach very little and didn't really have a role to fulfil even if they could - so that didn't last long.


*I am pretty sure this was a serious news story, not a piece in the Roger Bacon column!

[kanga]

kanga

I never had the pleasure of the “Ground Gripper” , the VC10 was more to my liking!
My ex Trident mates tell me there were no Flight Engineers in BEA , it was crewed by three pilots, one of whom sat at the System’s Panel.

At Channel we definitely had separate cadres of pilots and FEs on our Tridents, neither being qualified in the other role. I'm guessing (only) that it may be that BEA started in the early Tridents with FEs, which they needed on the Comet 4Bs (which we also had at Channel), but as they retired they were replaced with cross-trained FOs.

In the same context, I heard that the Trident 1s were sprightly performers, at least at altitude, but by the time the same fuselage had been stretched to the 3B length it definitely needed the 4th, booster, engine for takeoff and initial climb.

[kanga]

I remember* Flight reporting, back in the early 80s, that when Air France introduced their first 2 crew cockpit aircraft the FEs' Union was sufficiently powerful that some types were fitted with a third seat behind the interseat console.
..


*I am pretty sure this was a serious news story, not a piece in the Roger Bacon column!

I can remember that story in Flight. It might have been for the Mercure, which AF did not use for long. They were palmed off to Aeropostale, IIRC

[Cowshed]

My ex Trident mates tell me there were no Flight Engineers in BEA , it was crewed by three pilots, one of whom sat at the System’s Panel.

My dad flew as a co-pilot on Trident 1Es for BKS in the late 60s. I understand they had a proper flight engineer, as later he had a brief spell with Cyprus Airways who used the BEA model with pilots in the 3rd seat – my father hated it. [As an aside the Trident still resting at Nicosia airport is in his logbook].

[AlanM]

The CAA are prosecuting......

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2020-10- ... lane-crash

[IMCR]

I am afraid when it comes to CAA prosecutions (and I am not commenting on the merits of this case, or otherwise, or the rights and wrongs of this case) the CAA's history of being able to organise a prosecution is not good so I will not be surprised if it is a total failure.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Interesting name.

I crossed swords a few years ago with an out-and-out criminal who was masquerading as a "David Henderson", some may recall him from the handle "GoldenEaglePilot" on the WrinkleyFruit site. The man in question ended up doing time for fraud as I recall.

Definitely not the same man, but interesting nonetheless.

Can't say from what I have picked up over a number of years, and particularly in reporting of this particular tragedy that I've enormous sympathies for the real David Henderson. But clearly legal process will be gone through, and one hopes that whatever decision is reached, it'll be a fair one.

G

[Bobcro]

Throughout daily life I have always thought that I had a duty of care to others, not only to my family but any person. If a power tool or ladder is unsafe to use then don’t lend it to your neighbour. If it’s not safe to cross the road then stop the person from launching themselves into harm.

If you take someone flying either in your own aircraft or one you have rented you need to make sure that you and the aircraft are legal and fit for purpose and that you don’t fly in conditions that you know are unsuitable or if it is not lega for you to do so.

If you as an individual or as a company make a habit of arranging flights for other people you cannot ignore the legal obligation requiring adherence to a standard of reasonable care.

[Hooligan]

I recall that thread Genghis...

[Jonzarno]

I crossed swords a few years ago with an out-and-out criminal who was masquerading as a "David Henderson", some may recall him from the handle "GoldenEaglePilot" on the WrinkleyFruit site. The man in question ended up doing time for fraud as I recall.

Yes, I was involved in that and testified against him at Oxford Crown Court. His real name is Kevin Crellin and at the time of the trial he was subject to a suspended sentence also for fraud which was taken into account when he was sentenced.

He is a piece of human sewage who fully deserves to be flushed down the sewer of history.

[G-BLEW]

He must have been out for a while now.

Ian

[Londlostdriver]

I am afraid when it comes to CAA prosecutions (and I am not commenting on the merits of this case, or otherwise, or the rights and wrongs of this case) the CAA's history of being able to organise a prosecution is not good so I will not be surprised if it is a total failure.

Conviction rate was better than 90% when I was there but things change.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I crossed swords a few years ago with an out-and-out criminal who was masquerading as a "David Henderson", some may recall him from the handle "GoldenEaglePilot" on the WrinkleyFruit site. The man in question ended up doing time for fraud as I recall.

Yes, I was involved in that and testified against him at Oxford Crown Court. His real name is Kevin Crellin and at the time of the trial he was subject to a suspended sentence also for fraud which was taken into account when he was sentenced.

He is a piece of human sewage who fully deserves to be flushed down the sewer of history.

That's the blighter, and I agree.

I have heard no recent reports, but as Boss says, he must be out. I suppose it's theoretically possible he's gone straight, more likely I suspect he's gone off to prey on some other sector of society.

But definitely not the same person as the real David Henderson whose alleged sins are somewhat different.

G