[Rjk983]

Let’s just assume that for whatever reason, the UK leaves EASA by the end of this year. Please don’t turn this into a debate on the merits or otherwise of staying in EASA....

Then what is required to re-establish ICAO compliant UK licences from ab-Initio?

I assume it is fairly straightforward to establish an ICAO compliant syllabus to a PPL then the various stages beyond to a full ATPL. What needs to be put in place and what instructor / examiner quals would need to be (re)created.

Would there be a straightforward way to convert NPPL(SSEA) to the new UK PPL? would this allow a route to European flying for newcomers who need to go through the, now well trodden, route of NNPL(M) to (SSEA) to PPL due to initial cost outlay?

[Paul_Sengupta]

Well, UK ICAO PPLs, etc, have never actually gone away, I still fly on mine, as do many others. When applying for a new EASA PPL you can tick a box and get issued with a UK PPL as well.

As for a route from NPPL(SSEA) to UK PPL (SEP), well, someone asked about that, and the CAA replied that at the moment they're not issuing stand alone UK ICAO PPLs, i.e. not on the back of an EASA PPL application, but I'm not entirely sure why they couldn't. If we leave EASA, it'll be within the CAA's remit to come up with a path to UK ICAO PPL.

[derekf]

According to the CAA https://info.caa.co.uk/brexit/private-pilots/ existing UK issued EASA Part-FCL licenses will become UK issued Part-FCL licenses and existing training syllabus forms etc will be retained but ignore the word EASA (which will be removed over time)

With respect to ab-initio license, here's a good example from the FAQ on the above link for if you have a license application in process (or will have nearer the end of the year)

I have a license application in progress

The CAA will continue to process your application and you will be issued with an EASA Part FCL or a UK Part FCL licence, depending on when your licence is issued. If the licence is issued prior to the end of the transition period, it will be issued in an EASA Part FCL formatted licence. If the licence is issued after the end of the transition period it will be issued as a UK Part FCL formatted licence. Both licences are fully ICAO-compliant and valid for operating UK-registered aircraft.

We'll get more info nearer the time but I wouldn't worry too much about how to get a UK Part-FCL license - the problem is what you might be able to do with it on anything other than G-reg aircraft (if you have a desire/need to do that)

[Paul_Sengupta]

I wouldn't worry too much about how to get a UK Part-FCL license

That's the whole point of the question. Currently if you have an NPPL(SSEA) and can fly aeroplanes quite happily, you have to do the full course again, minus a small credit, to get an EASA ICAO compliant PPL or even an LAPL, which is beyond daft. It's just done for purposes of dogma, not for any practical flying or safety purposes.

If the UK leaves EASA, it can create its own path from NPPL to PPL.

I'm not saying I hope the UK leaves EASA. It would be nice, though, if EASA were to either stop punishing people for having national licences or dictating what we, as a national CAA, can or can't do in terms of licence upgrade.

[Rjk983]

Paul’s interpretation of why I asked the question is spot on.

I really hope creating a route from NNPL(SSEA) to a full UK PPL is on the cards in 2021.

[Irv Lee]

@Rjk983 can you remember or know of a document somewhere that said what the upgrade was?

[Rjk983]

@Irv Lee sorry for the imprecise terminology! In my first post, when I said upgrade, what I meant was the route for those with an NPPL(SSEA) that had been issued prior to XX April 2018 (8th I think) are able to follow to apply for an LAPL as a paper exercise, they can then follow the standard route to convert to an EASA PPL.

As my paperwork for my NPPL(SSEA) was held up at the laa, I missed the deadline. And a with todays news it looks like I am grounded in 40 days time.

[Kemble Pitts]

@Irv Lee
As my paperwork for my NPPL(SSEA) was held up at the laa, I missed the deadline. And a with todays news it looks like I am grounded in 40 days time.

This is, truly, a daft rule.

NPPL holders who got their licences a month earlier than you did are, obviously, safer pilots than you are. What other possible explanation could there be??

Out of interest, what date did you send your paperwork to LAA?

[Rjk983]

I hand delivered it to Turweston, from Scotland, around the 20th March. I won’t go into the reason it was sat on as it is water under the bridge now but the result was that it was finally sent to the CAA at the start of May and issued within a week.

At the time I was on the phone to the CAA and LAA almost daily and everyone I spoke to ( or at least everyone except the person who caused the delay) was very helpful and sympathetic but unfortunately nobody was able to speed up the unnecessary review that took place and it missed the deadline.

It was argued that it had been public for two years that the deadline was coming and applying late was my fault. This may have been true but I had been away from aviation for some years and knew nothing of the deadline until I joined the LAA in Dec 17 as I was thinking of building. The January 18 magazine arrived and there was an article in n it about the deadline, this spurred me into action and I managed to jump through all but one hoop during worst winter for years (beast from the east etc) but to no avail.

It was also argued that I had missed the deadline the LAA set for receipt of applications, which was about two weeks before the actual deadline. Again, this was true (I think I missed it by about 4 days) but the discussions with the team at turweston and at the CAA indicated this would have been fine if the application had been processed and sent off the same day, or even up to a week later. The CAA said at the time that any applications that came in were date stamped when they arrived and as long as it was before the deadline then this was the date that was used for the licence issue when they were working through the backlog of applications. I don’t know how true this is but it was said to me on three occasions by three different people answering the phone at the CAA.

At least I’ll be able to concentrate on the build as I can’t fly for the foreseeable!

[Rjk983]

@Rjk983 can you remember or know of a document somewhere that said what the upgrade was?

Further to my earlier reply @Irv Lee . From the NPPL FAQ pages http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/faq.php

Q Can I upgrade to a EASA LAPL or PPL?

A You can convert a NPPL which was issued before 8th April 2018 directly to an EASA PART-FCL LAPL (A) by submitting an application to the UK CAA. In order to convert to a PPL further training is required. Full details of agreed conversion requirements are contained in CAP 804, Section 4, Part P. However, a NPPL issued after 8th April 2018 cannot be upgraded. It may be possible to use some of the experience gained towards the minimum hours requirements.

The possible use of some experience towards the minimum hours bit does not appear in cap 804, and I haven’t found it written down anywhere so it appears like it may be at the whim of whoever gets the application/enquiry at CAA.

Anybody with actual knowledge care to chime in??

[Irv Lee]

Your quote is NPPL_SSEA to LAPL, not to a full UK PPL, so the conversion 'late ssea to LAPL' is more or less the LAPL course including ground exams, and then take the upgrade LAPL to EASA PPL if you wanted the full PPL.... but at the rate some pilots are doing whole courses, we could be out of EASA by then. Loadsamoney and Loadsatime invested in a LAPL course might, on Jan 1st 2021, put you back where you were on Jan 1st 2020 if you hadn't got the EASA PPL by then and things went 'wrong' with the UK-EASA relationship. If things went very 'right' with UK-EASA there may be a more sensible SSEA-LAPL by then.

[Bill Haddow]

Today's news is that the UK is going to leave EASA.

Bill H

[Rjk983]

I’d better get the title changed!