[Dave W]

Well hang on... We're talking here about the physical collation of a few forms, stapling them together and popping into an envelope with a cheque. It's not rocket science. There's even a checklist on the back of the PPL application form so that anyone who can read English can check that they've included the various documents that they need to include.

That's fine for those aspects where it is a straightforward ab-initio licence or well-bounded Rating application which does have a simple checklist.

It's not the case for other applications, such as licence conversions and simultaneous Rating applications. I have seen two occasions where the school cast the student adrift there and it did not end well for the student. The school should have caught the errors made by the student - and they were errors, not mistakes. The student had no advice and knew no better; the published instructions are unclear for this and the one-size-fits-all application form further muddied the waters. The individuals concerned felt let down by the school, and I can see why.

[David Wood]

That's fine for those aspects where it is a straightforward ab-initio licence or well-bounded Rating application which does have a simple checklist.

It's not the case for other applications, such as licence conversions and simultaneous Rating applications. I have seen two occasions where the school cast the student adrift there and it did not end well for the student. The school should gave caught the errors made by the student - and they were errors, not mistakes. The student had no advice and knew no better; the published instructions are unclear for this and the one-size-fits-all application form further muddied the waters. The individuals concerned felt let down by the school, and I can see why.

OK, well that's a slightly different point. And I'd agree with you that in those circumstances the school should support (but not do it for him).

You will recall the recent debacle over the ruling by the CAA to the effect that a post-Skill Test pilot could not fly until he'd received his license. It was a matter that came to a head as a result one of my student's experience. I could have said "tough luck, mate. Your problem." but obviously I didn't. It took quite a lot of effort from quite a lot of people but eventually the CAA was obliged to rescind what was quite obviously a daft ruling.

[map5623]

...........responsibility.....

I thought this word had been removed from public use and was only to be used by people in authority, as they should know its meaning and act accordingly.

[Dave W]

OK, well that's a slightly different point. And I'd agree with you that in those circumstances the school should support (but not do it for him).

Well, why should it be a different point? It's the same concept after all; the difference is one of complexity.

Why should the school not do it for the student? They are paying for the Rating, which includes transfer of the school's knowledge, after all.

[chrisbl]

Apart from the thread drift discussing the 1105E, the CAA circular was about renewal and revalidations.

As examiner I have always sent the forms off to the CAA, usually the next day having given a copy to the pilot and kept a copy for my self.

That's what is in the examiners guide so i think it is the examiners job to do this.

Having an office down the road from the CAA's then Kingsway Office, i would just popped up to their mail-room with my envelope and have them put in the internal mail to Gatwick. Now i just email it.


I was once contacted by the CAA about an IMC skills test i had conducted. They could find no record of my IMC Revalidation and they were questioning whether the test was valid.

The IR examiner wrote on the 1157 for the IR re-validation, the new validity dates of the IMC /IRR rather than complete the 1176. That was missed.

I forwarded a copy of the 1157 again so they could update my records.
They then very kindly reprinted my licence with all the ratings on as iIwas about to start needing a supplementary page, having filled all the lines.

So yes they do look at this stuff and cross check to make sure that their records are in order.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Having an office down the road from the CAA's then Kingsway Office, i would just popped up to their mail-room with my envelope and have them put in the internal mail to Gatwick.

I once gave a form in a pre-addressed envelope into the mail room at Kingsway, and it got lost somewhere between there and upstairs!

[patowalker]

However, why a licence signature can't stand alone (it does in law, after all) is worth asking too.)

In the real world licences are plastic cards; not booklets.

[riverrock]

Examiner / CFI have always sent them off for me. I suspect that examiners / instructors with the correct privileges are going to be more reliable than plebs like me

[PaulB]

Examiner / CFI have always sent them off for me. I suspect that examiners / instructors with the correct privileges are going to be more reliable than plebs like me

...bloomin' 'eck! I didn't realise that there was a "sticking a stamp on an envelope and putting in a post box" rating. What are the revalidation requirements?

[T67M]

My experience is that it depends upon the examiner and the date. I've had to send my own paperwork in, and I've had the examiner send it off for me, in some cases for consecutive revaluations with the same examiner.

Why are we making this so hard?

[PaulB]

Why are we making this so hard?

Not sure we are..... I don't mind doing it... in fact I might prefer to do it. What has been made clear, though, is that it is the FI/FE's responsibility to ensure that it is done.

[flybymike]

in some cases for consecutive revaluations with the same examiner.

Hope you hadn’t depreciated too much.

[skydriller]

Well, in France a month or so ago, a very nice aeroclub Examiner checked my logbook, logged on to the DGAC website for me and we filled in a couple of boxes with my licence number, hours and dates. Then pressed enter....EASA PPL rating revalidation done. He then signed my ratings page.

After some delays on my part, the other day a very nice Examiner met up with me whilst I was headed offshore, I'd pre-filled the 1119E & printed it. After checking my logbook, we signed it, I said Id send it off to the CAA after my trip, and he kindly offered to scan & send to the CAA right there and then. He then signed the ratings page....UK ICAO PPL rating revalidation done.

As long as everything gets done properly and sent, does it matter who does what?

Regards, SD..

[Wide-Body]

Why are we making this so hard?

Not sure we are..... I don't mind doing it... in fact I might prefer to do it. What has been made clear, though, is that it is the FI/FE's responsibility to ensure that it is done.

Now it is confirmed as a responsibility, what charge should this attract.

[FlarePath]

Now it is confirmed as a responsibility, what charge should this attract.

The same as the charge for signing the log book.