[josher]

the gauge on the the [foam] extinguisher in our permit aircraft is tickling the red and we beleive its time to replace it. In googling I have come across a 'clean agent' halon substitute extinguisher at quite a modest price but only in an automatic form. At a time when EASA is proposing to ban halon extinguishers in aircraft the only portable 'aviation' extinguishers I can find are hugely expensive halon type. Has anyone come across a clean agent extinguisher in portable form? Otherwise what do you use?

[Taildra99er]

There was a post on the LAA Hangar Chat forum back in January from a chap saying his company were developing an 1kg FE-35 (clean agent) product expected Feb/Mar. Never seemed to materialise though. Countyfireprotection dot co dot uk was the outfit.

[Marvin]

Any one got any thoughts on this type of fire extinguisher, apart from the price.

Extreme is a new environmentally friendly gas fire extinguisher system which uses 3M's Novec 1230, a halon gas replacement with zero ozone depletion and is non toxic. A further bonus with the Novec 1230 gas is that it leaves no residue and has no adverse effect on delicate electrical components.

[riverrock]

The stats I've seen suggest its an effective halon replacement - although requires 8 - 20% more volume for the same extinguishing ability.
Refills / services also look expensive. There are a few varieties on the market, and it is FIA approved for use in certain racing cars.
In theory it should work well.

[dangerous pete]

Do not under any circumstances use the Halon in an enclosed spae. If you discharge it inide the cabin in flight you will be dead before you hit the floor.
They have been outlawed for years.

[riverrock]

Do not under any circumstances use the Halon in an enclosed spae. If you discharge it inide the cabin in flight you will be dead before you hit the floor.

Sometimes, when you don't know what you're talking about, its better not to talk?
http://www.protectionrt.com/halon-toxicity/

It is practically impossible to inhale a sufficiently high concentration of Halons(2-5% in air) for a few minutes to temporarily harm an individual..if using a fire extinguisher or automatic Halon unit. Most automatic units are used in enclosed areas where individuals are normally absent. Even so, back in the 80’s & 90’s, computer rooms were protected by flooding the whole room with Halons, and at times people were present when the system was discharged. This never resulted in harming someone. In fact, there has been hardly anyone harmed directly from Halon ingestion reported.
To show the perfect safeness of Halons, Dupont back in the 80’s had a video showing a person in a telephone booth filled with 5% Halon 1301 in air, not being able to light his cigarette lighter!!

I'd have guessed you were trying to be funny - but you missed the emoticon.

[riverrock]

For toxicity comparison:
http://www.novec-1230.ru/en/novec/toxicity

[Stampe]

I believe County fire at Rochester will be marketing an FE35 extinguisher for aviation use very shortly in a 1kg size.Its a replacement for Halon very effective and is the same agent Police officers in riot squads use.Pricing is very competitive compared to Halon. I would never have a dry powder extinguisher in an aircraft and I am surprised at the number of aircraft so equipped.Regards Stampe

[cockney steve]

Dry powder = chocolate fireguard But what about CO2 ??
If It's sprayed as a liquid, it would absorb a tremendous amount of heat from the fire, thus cooling the source below it's vaporisation or flash-point .

I once put out a petrol-fire by this very method, having wasted 2- 2-gallon foam extinguishers on it. (Mig-welding a Ford Escort floor, the white-hot wire penetrated a nylon fuel pipe from tank to engine.) It got the adrenaline going!

[patowalker]

CO2 is good. We used to test extinguishers in the office by coming up behind an unsuspenting colleague and giving him a blast in the back of the head. The rushing gas blew his hair upright, froze it and removed his oxygen The victim was left shocked, gasping for air and looking hilarious with hair standing on end. Do that today and you'd probably end up in court.

[VRB_20kt]

Dry powder is hardly a chocolate fireguard. It's incredibly effective against hot oil fires allowing the operator close approach and pretty quick elimination of the fire. Where it fails spectacularly is if you want to use anything again.

Sent from my K6000 Pro using Tapatalk

[Bill McCarthy]

Dry powder is almost a chocolate fire guard. I did the advanced fire fighting course in the RN, prior to being drafted to boats. They chucked about 10 gallons of diesel on the concrete, set fire to it and each in turn had to pick up the power extinguisher, set it off and walk through the fire putting it out on the way. When you are half way through, the fire reignites behind you - so you have to watch your arris.
The most dramatic demo was the hot oil fire in a small drum - the oil was set alight, a bucket of water suspended above it and after a minute the bucket was upset into the oil drum with the resulting explosion of flame. This, to show us the mistake of fighting a chip pan fire with water.
A powder system would be fine for engine fires if there was a ringmain under the cowling and you had a “ plug in” point in the cabin.

[Shoestring Flyer]

The OP is I assume aware that a fire extinguisher is not a requirement in a LAA Permit aircraft?

[cockney steve]

Those of a certain age may remember the "Salamander " heater.
Basically, a large , circular washing-up bowl ,about 3 foot diameter....a slightly conical lid with a small circular "hit and miss" vent and a chimney with multiple louvre-slots up it, increased diameter for a couple of feet then extended as a parallel cylinder for another couple. a smaller,L-shaped pipe projected from the side and re- entered the lid....top of the chimney also had a flip-over tinlid. These found favour in the smaller garages, as they burnt waste sump-oil and gave out a lot of radiant heat. Originally tasked to keeping frost off the Kentish hop-fields, they'd burble away like a pulse-jet.
If one was careless and allowed water in , this would start to boil and thermal -runaway would ensue, closing the vent and shutting the chimney-lid were ineffective, the monster would roar, exude flames from all the louvres, the boiling mixture in the "washing-bowl " would spit and bang and the dull-red metalwork wouldbecome bright orange.
As the thing stood in a wire frame, those of a brave disposition could attach a long bar and very carefully drag the inferno out of the building. the slightest slopping of the basin contents would elicit a frightening gout of flame.

The answer, again, was a hosepipe. judiciously applying water to cool the metal and oil, WITHOUT getting any inside. one could eventually regain some semblance of control They were, of course, designed to run on clean paraffin or gas-oil (Diesel).....but who could resist free heat with a constant supply of sump-oil. .

Insurers would not pay out on a fire involving a "sally".

[Tall_Guy_In_a_PA28]

The most dramatic demo was the hot oil fire in a small drum - the oil was set alight, a bucket of water suspended above it and after a minute the bucket was upset into the oil drum with the resulting explosion of flame. This, to show us the mistake of fighting a chip pan fire with water.

I did the same at HMS Raleigh nearly 40 years ago on Sea Cadet summer camp. I can still feel the heat when I remember it. Would never be allowed today (not with 15 year old kids, at least).