[Phil737]

Hi All,

I apologise in advance as I can see similar questions have been asked before, however my conclusion is that there are conflicting answers including speaking to the CAA and BMAA...

ok here goes.

My situation.
EASA PPL (SEP) with Class 2 medical - valid until March 2020
UK CAA PPL (SEP) with Class 2 medical - valid until March 2020

(I presume that when the examiner signed my proficiency check ride for (SEP) back in March 2018 and extended it through to March 2020, that it was OK for them to sign both EASA and UK CAA certificate of re-validation)?

My class 2 medical runs out in March 2019.

What are my options please for me to only fly C42 Icarus microlight. As it stands, investigating online, I believe that I can fly the C42 on my CAA UK PPL (SEP) following completing differences training. The instructor can then sign my logbook.

I can then accumulate hours credited in the C42 against the CAA PPL (SEP) licence only and use these hours as re-validation towards the SEP before the end of March 2020.

Given the above, do I still require a Microlight Rating for my CAA PPL (SEP) and therefore a GST or does the differences training suffice..?

What medical do I need to have in order to use the UK PPL (SEP) and fly the C42 - is it a class 2 or self declaration..?

I will keep my EASA PPL (SEP) current when the time comes, bearing in mind the medical will need to be renewed prior to flying.

Appreciate your assistance with this, to what seems like a relatively simple question but I cannot seem to find any definitive answer!

Many thanks

[Irv Lee]

Hi All,

I apologise in advance as I can see similar questions have been asked before, however my conclusion is that there are conflicting answers including speaking to the CAA and BMAA...

Please tell..... the CAA had a habit last year of really milking it in time and money for exactly this when all it needs is differences training as you say later. They wanted the guy to get an EASA medical and an EASA LAPL (from his UK PPL) and then have differences training …. he already had what was needed (uk ppl, sep, self declare) except for differences training. Imagine the difference in cost and wait time!

My situation.
EASA PPL (SEP) with Class 2 medical - valid until March 2020
UK CAA PPL (SEP) with Class 2 medical - valid until March 2020

(I presume that when the examiner signed my proficiency check ride for (SEP) back in March 2018 and extended it through to March 2020, that it was OK for them to sign both EASA and UK CAA certificate of re-validation)?

100% right

My class 2 medical runs out in March 2019.

What are my options please for me to only fly C42 Icarus microlight. As it stands, investigating online, I believe that I can fly the C42 on my CAA UK PPL (SEP) following completing differences training. The instructor can then sign my logbook.

correct (as long as instructor is qualified to flying microlights)

I can then accumulate hours credited in the C42 against the CAA PPL (SEP) licence only and use these hours as re-validation towards the SEP before the end of March 2020.

Correct - the ones in the final 12 months.

Given the above, do I still require a Microlight Rating for my CAA PPL (SEP) and therefore a GST or does the differences training suffice..?

the differences training on SEP is sufficient. (I bet I know who told you to do a GST!)

What medical do I need to have in order to use the UK PPL (SEP) and fly the C42 - is it a class 2 or self declaration..?

Self declare

I will keep my EASA PPL (SEP) current when the time comes, bearing in mind the medical will need to be renewed prior to flying.

Not so at the moment.... see exemption ors4 1283 through to April 2020. Depends if you meet its conditions, many pilots do, unless they want to fly to EU or Ch.Is - see para 4 on http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1283..pdf

Appreciate your assistance with this, to what seems like a relatively simple question but I cannot seem to find any definitive answer!

You've been asking the wrong organisations - you might find helpful starting info on http://www.higherplane.co.uk/bfr-ground.pdf

[PaulSS]

Thanks, Irv, love that website. I learnt a lot just by reading that and will have even more fun following the links

[Phil737]

Thanks @Irv Lee you are a star! thank you very much for taking the time to answers my questions....

Given the above, do I still require a Microlight Rating for my CAA PPL (SEP) and therefore a GST or does the differences training suffice..?

the differences training on SEP is sufficient. (I bet I know who told you to do a GST!)

Couldn't possibly say on the forum.

What medical do I need to have in order to use the UK PPL (SEP) and fly the C42 - is it a class 2 or self declaration..?

Self declare - great!

I will keep my EASA PPL (SEP) current when the time comes, bearing in mind the medical will need to be renewed prior to flying.

Not so at the moment.... see exemption ors4 1283 through to April 2020. Depends if you meet its conditions, many pilots do, unless they want to fly to EU or Ch.Is - see para 4 on http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1283..pdf

not 100% I totally follow that explanation, sorry! or whether I fall into the relevant categories?

http://www.higherplane.co.uk/bfr-ground.pdf

Thanks will check that site out!

Many thanks again
Phil

[Dave W]

I posted this in the (now locked) sister thread to this in the Licensing forum, but putting it here might also be useful to people who find this thread in the future:

[Phil737]

I posted this in the (now locked) sister thread to this in the Licensing forum, but putting it here might also be useful to people who find this thread in the future:

Thank you @Dave W
My answer to your last question on the sister thread

Bear in mind that if you have the microlight hours to revalidate by experience the SEP Rating on your UK PPL in March 2018, but you do not have the required SEP hours, then you cannot Reval by Experience your EASA PPL SEP Rating.

The SEP hours were credited in an EASA aircraft (PA28).

[Irv Lee]

@Phil737
The bit that is probably confusing you is that the exemption is not relevant to flying the Microlight BUT you said (I think) that you would keep revalidating your Sep in the easa ppl too, and because of that, you said you would keep your easa medical going when it expired. This is where the exemption comes in, means you don't need to keep the easa medical.
To understand it better:
Subject to the overriding statement that an EASA ppl with Sep with lapl medical cannot do anything at present:
1) the ANO 2016 allows all licences (national or EASA) containing sep or ssea ratings or privileges to fly non easa aircraft in those specific categories with any pilot medical subject to differences training, mauw, pob, when necessary as appropriate. So easa ppl or uk ppl, sep and any medical will allow differences training to fly Microlight. The ANO also allows you to count the hours to UK ppl's Sep reval.
2) easa ppl and Sep should need an EASA class 2 or 1 medical to fly easa aircraft, but exemption 1283 means you can do so on a self declare.

[Phil737]

@Irv Lee
OK got it I think... I believe I fall into those categories so to have self declare will allow me to fly on the UK PPL (SEP) and when I need to re-validate my EASA PPL (SEP) in March 2020. I can do this by using the self declare and taking a proficiency check ride in an EASA aircraft (Cessna or piper)!

[patowalker]

Just in case it is of interest, UK registered microlight can be flown in France on a UK CAA PPL (SEP) with differences training signed off in the logbook, without evidence a medical certificate or even a medical declaration.

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/eli/arrete/2015/1/7/DEVA1401163A/jo/texte

[neilld]

@Phil737

2) easa ppl and Sep should need an EASA class 2 or 1 medical to fly easa aircraft, but exemption 1283 means you can do so on a self declare.

Is that strictly true? I was given the impression (by some who really should know) that if you were in the Class 2 Medical "System" you couldn't opt out and self declare.
If you can opt out and self declare, what happens when the exemption expires?

DFN

[Irv Lee]

I think the problem was not a regulatory problem, it was something to do with a system problem to do with the actual issue of a lapl medical if you had a self declare without some one climbing into the server with screwdrivers and spanners. It doesn't make logical sense to say you can't have a self declare if you had a class 2 because the exemption would be pointless as you must have had an easa medical sometime to have an easa licence. If you have an easa medical you do not need the exemption.
If the exemption expires without it being renewed then you cannot use the exemption. By then we might have
1- no links with easa at all and we don't have easa aircraft we just have aircraft
Or
2- links to easa but lapl medical allowed with ppls.

Was the person who "ought to know" someone who made money from EASA medicals?

[neilld]

Was the person who "ought to know" someone who made money from EASA medicals?

Maybe.
I think the reference was to para. 3 ii) in ORSA 1283

Licence holders must have previously made a medical declaration in accordance with
Article 163(3) of the Order which remains valid and has not been withdrawn.

which could be interpreted as "if you haven't previously had a medical declaration then you can't have a new one"

DFN

[Irv Lee]

It's talking about having to have made a declaration previous to any flying claiming use of this exemption. ie: no medical at all as it expired, go flying anyway, yes, wings still seem to generate lift without any medical. Go flying every day like this, suddenly have some sort of incident, land, rush to screen, make medical declaration.... too late! Should have done that before (previous to) the first flight claiming use of the exemption.

[flybymike]

which could be interpreted as "if you haven't previously had a medical declaration then you can't have a new one"

How could anyone ever have a first one then?

[Irv Lee]

ps: funny how when there are two legal solutions, pilots asking for expert advice seem to be only told about the one that generates money for the askee.
1) want to fly microlights on UK PPL + SEP + Self declare medical? Expert 1 answer: "easa medical, apply for EASA licence, differences training, fly microlights, SEP test every 2 years to keep sep valid".... legal result, but rubbish advice - just have differences training and count the hours for reval..
2) want to fly microlights on UK PPL + SEP + Self declare medical? Expert 2 answer: "GST for microlight rating, apply for microlight rating".... legal result, but rubbish advice - just have differences training.
3) Want to fly 'simply' and don't want to pay for an expensive medical?: Expert 3 answer: "Get an easa medical because you had one before" … legal result, but rubbish advice - just self declare and stick to conditions.

ps: I'm quite happy to have CAA, BMAA, and AMEs on my PPL Masterclasses.... Perhaps I'll hide from them that it's allowed but not compulsory...