Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By PaulB
#1652773
proteus wrote:
johnm wrote: the EU is in fact an ICAO member in its own right as well as the individual member states as I recall.


This is news to me. I've just had a look on the ICAO website and they don't show the EU as a member.

My understanding was that they weren't allowed to join as they were not a recognised nation.


That's what I understood....
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1652774
Me too.

Just a passing observation - it cost me £35 when I did it, but I think it's now £42 to get a parallel UK licence (any level: PPL, CPL or ATPL) to your existing EASA licence issued, with the same rights and privileges on G-reg aircraft / Annex II.

Given that the ongoing shambles looks not unlikely to cause at least an interruption in the UK's EASA membership - there may be value in beating the rush!

G
By NickA
#1652775
Steve is right. It looks very bad for our aviation industry at all levels. As a humble PPL, I am wondering what will happen to EASA Permit aircraft, an example of which I am a co-owner. It introduces some very worrying uncertainty at the very least.
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By ak7274
#1652779
I'm a Flyer forum PPL with a Jodel and no I don't say "I'm alright Jack"
I see problems for the UK Aviation industry and hope it doesn't happen. I fully support those who need EASA in this mess.. Although I am being pushed into thinking may be I shouldn't care.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1652780
ak7274 wrote:I'm a Flyer forum PPL with a Jodel and no I don't say "I'm alright Jack"


Yes, indeed. I don't see anybody else saying it either. It was an unwarranted comment (not yours).
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By proteus
#1652785
I've not looked at this, but is EASA licence training not possible outside of an EU state?

I was thinking of how it used to be possible to get a the JAA licence in the states.

I do think it's a shame that you can't / don't have really have freelance instructors or mechanics the way that you can in FAA land.
By PaulB
#1652798
Where's the government/EU doc that says this... the link in the OP isn't exactly independent?
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1652800
PaulB wrote:Where's the government/EU doc that says this... the link in the OP isn't exactly independent?



there is a link to the document from the link in the original post but here it is from gov.uk
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1652802
Just an observation that should not be taken as lack of sympathy/concern/worry for the commercial jobs or industrial side....
I don't know about SAYING it, but I've experienced an awful lot of 'I am alright Jack' ATTITUDE over years from the pilots who have benefitted from EASA when it comes to considering that, whatever benefits they personally have got out of EASA, there are 'fellow pilots' out there who have really suffered because of the inflexibility and lack of anything voluntary about it - the sort of desperate and sometimes depressed individuals that I have to listen to and try and find legal ways around whatever it was in EASA that was hitting them with.
I have long pointed out that for pure political dogma, we gave a up a european wide system that had flexibility, appeals, and the ability to apply common sense to an individual's needs, namely JAR. JAR worked fine at the licensing level across many more European countries than just EASA ones at the commercial level as well as the private level. Ditching the system that worked for EASA might turn out to be a bit like swapping a solid final salary pension for something that should be better but cannot possibly go wrong according to the 'expert' who suddenly turned up and cold called you.
So I now I will no doubt be getting more calls and have to show as much sympathy and try to help EASA pilots heading for despair or problems because the UK might be leaving EASA - although there will be a bit of licence shuffling going on to change state to mitigate individuals, but I also I think within a few months - maybe even by late March, simply waving a lot of (our) money EASA's way will start to sort things out, but also put up CAA charges to pilots to pay for it.
#1652807
A number of people have pointed out that the UK and all other EASA member states are contracting states to ICAO. ICAO spent many many hours days weeks months and years working out what a globally agreed set of policies on flight crew licensing would look like. The result is ICAO Annex 1. We have had decades now with JAA, EASA and now EASA-plus-UK-or-is-it-the-UK-on-its-own where thousands of probably quite well-intentioned civil servants have endeavoured to tweek those ICAO criteria to meet some imagined difference in Country A or B. What we surely need is to go back to the ICAO basics and enshrine those in our regulations. NS
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By SteveC
#1652808
Dave W wrote:
ak7274 wrote:I'm a Flyer forum PPL with a Jodel and no I don't say "I'm alright Jack"


Yes, indeed. I don't see anybody else saying it either. It was an unwarranted comment (not yours).



Actually its been said many times across a whole host of the threads by those who think that Brexit is a great thing and won't effect them because they are flying their Cubs and Jodels in the UK. So no it was not an unwarranted comment.

SC Less of the ad hominem, FD
By proteus
#1652813
As someone who just drops in on the forum more occasionally, I did see your tradegy etc, comments a bit jarring to the rest of the thread.

People seem to say how devastating everything is always going to be, yet it rarely happens in reality. We didn't suffer the immediate recession as predicted.

I do think the ICAO as a system and idea is pretty solid, this does appear to work for the rest of the world.
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By SteveC
#1652815
proteus wrote:As someone who just drops in on the forum more occasionally, I did see your tradegy etc, comments a bit jarring to the rest of the thread.

People seem to say how devastating everything is always going to be, yet it rarely happens in reality. We didn't suffer the immediate recession as predicted.

I do think the ICAO as a system and idea is pretty solid, this does appear to work for the rest of the world.


I think you misunderstand how it actually works for the rest of the world as well. There are very few places that just accept another ICAO licence for commercial work on a national carrier. Everywhere I have worked has required me to convert my ICAO licence to the local ICAO variant to the extent that I have quite a little collection now as a result. EASA smoothed that entire process for those of us working in the EU to make it seamless.

Like I said unless a deal is done this will have a severe impact on commercial ops.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1652820
It is indeed as SteveC wrote - ICAO is where the framework is set out and they have a broad oversight, the implementation of that framework is left to the national aviation authorities and those gathered in EASA have agreed a common framework of implementation across licensing, medical standards, airworthiness standards, air traffic control etc.is c

Due to this the UK's ability to market itself in the European Market and beyond has been significantly improved.

To think that isolating ourselves from EASA will bring back some halcyon days from yesteryear is an illusion. A, they were not halcyon days and b, the world has moved on.

Yup EASA has done some pretty crappy things in relation to private GA, luckily they have changed their attitudes - and those who say this is not rapid enough will not get any headwind from me; luckily enough we have an NAA which has taken the lead in making a lot of small GA a lot easier and this is actively supported by organisations such as the LAA, BMAA and BGA.

But to think that leaving EASA will make aviation in the UK flourish more is naive.

(f**k I had vowed to myself not to contribute to yet another EASA/EU thread - apologies)
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