For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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I think Mrs Johnm would want at least 200 miles and the charge time to match petrol fill up, if on a journey, so we're a way off yet I think.

For me I could probably cope with 200 miles and up to 30 mins charge time but otherwise I'd get very frustrated and impatient very quickly.
Last edited by johnm on Mon May 07, 2018 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
I haven't bought a brand new car since 1975 as for most of my career I had company cars. After that I've bought up-market (ish) cars at three years old and driven them to destruction. Mrs Johnm gets older cars and follows the same pattern.

The 20 year old SLK is becoming a money pit so I suspect a 10 year old SLK is in the offing for the next cycle!
Like your style. I don't like the lack of predictability of bills with post-warranty older cars, being brought up in the 70s with a family that had a mix of 60s and 70s bangers (Imps etc.) that needed constant attention to run alongside a new car (Jags etc.) that "just worked" was probably a factor too. That said, one of ours was bought new and seems to have been in the sweet spot of mature pre-DPF diesel tech and few electronic gizmos to go wrong. It's been well looked after and potentially has a lot of life left in it.

Had always done the British thing before that of company cars and/or swapping every 3 years. It was a visit to a friend in the States that taught me a different approach. As with many other Americans he buys his cars and then runs them until they die.

I do think that new cars are a big financial risk these days as the tech is changing so fast and you risk buying something that will soon be obsolete. The only obsolescence of my older diesel is the phone cradle, tape player and CD. That's why it is staying until it dies or the Govt forces me to get rid of it.

PCPs have come in for a lot of flack, but if you treat them as a pure rental agreement and put in a minimum deposit (so you are not risking equity) they can offer predictable costs. From what I can see the rental agreements on the current crop EVs compare quite well with those on older tech cars when you also take into account the lower fuel costs. If you are planning on buying second hand anyway then it's different.
Took a Tesla S for a test drive earlier. Needed a heck of a lot of self control to not order one on the spot (I'm waiting for the Model 3). The experience is like nothing I've ever driven before - loved it to bits. Just wish I was doing more mileage in my own car to be able to justify it. If I wasn't using company cars for the longer drives then I'd get one in a heartbeat.

The S seems to be missing a speed limiter, which is a pain when you live in a city that has wall to wall 20mph zones and is surrounded by managed motorways, but other than that I can't fault it. Masses of space, serene driving experience combined with more acceleration than you ever need and light handling. The autopilot works really well - just takes a little bit of getting used to trusting it . I assume that a speed limiter would be a simple software upgrade should Tesla include it at some point.

Also called in at a Nissan garage. Couldn't get a test drive today, but the PCP costs of a Leaf definitely add up. Similar rental cost to what I'm paying on the Audi, but much lower fuel expenses. Tough call now - if the Leaf drives OK then it could be a good stopgap until the Tesla 3 hits the UK vs. paying for the Audi and running it for a couple more years. Part of me is also still trying to find ways of justifying the Tesla S and getting one now.
Leodisflyer wrote:Part of me is also still trying to find ways of justifying the Tesla S and getting one now.

Your error is in justifying it, why we feel we have to justify everything is a mystery.

If you want it and can afford it there's no need for justification. :wink:

Life ain't no dress rehearsal!!
Leodisflyer liked this
Leodisflyer wrote:The Leaf is surprisingly roomy. A friend of mine was buried in one (it was converted into a hearse).

Looking forward to the Tesla test drive this morning.

I confidently predict you will love it! I had one for 3 days last year......
My 3 is due early next year :D
Leodisflyer liked this
You were right.

Is the UK 3 coming next year? Thought it was a year later.

The S blows the socks off anything I’ve ever driven. The demo car was showing around 250 miles of remaining range and was only around 80% charged.

Loved driving it on the motorway and around town. The regenerative braking works a treat -makes it a joy in town and saved the effort of needing the brakes when changing the cruise control on the way into roadworks.

We had the aircon on full blast and the thing is so powerful that, at normal city and motorway speeds we only seemed to be tickling the battery. Sound system was great too - needs to be as the car is so quiet you can hear everything that comes from the speakers.
PaulS said:
Is this because of the particular model of Leaf you have? I read on their website of ranges 150-160 miles. Is that just marketing creativity versus reality or does your machine have a smaller battery?

My first leaf was Generation One and had about 60 - 80 miles of Range. When it got to 50 mile range and 75% battery capacity I sold it on.

The new one is Generation Two - 24kw battery pack with 75 - 95 mile range. This one also can come with a 30kw battery pack increasing the range to 95 - 120 miles.

My particular one is "pre-loved", I cant afford the depreciation on a new one, and I plan to keep it for 3 - 5 years and expect to lose £2k - £4k in depeciation. So £650 to £800 per year and on say 7500 miles per year save about £1100 per year on fuel and £250 a year on road tax and £250 per year on servicng costs as compared to my other car.

But its not all about the money. The drive is so superior to a gas guzzler, smooth, fast, comfortable.
Rob P, Leodisflyer, PaulSS liked this
Looking forward to trying one, have only ever heard good words about them. Used to visit a customer a few years ago who had a Leaf as a pool car with a charging point in the car park. By all accounts it was very popular.

Must admit that looking at the numbers in the Nissan dealership earlier I couldn’t understand why people were there buying the other stuff. That said the dealership seriously messed up - no stock car available for an immediate test drive and the “Leaf specialist” not there on a Bank Holiday and the rest of the staff seemed to know little about it. I would have been an easy customer with an open “cheque book” today.

Those numbers look very impressive. With 45 mile return commute and a high fuel bill I reckon I could make very good use of an EV.

Interesting that there are pre-loved Leafs around. Could be a good option for us while waiting for a Tesla as we have a car that has legs in it yet that we could use for longer journeys.

The PCP costs on a Leaf are a no-brainer as we would defiantly save monthly money swapping one of the Audis, but you’ve got me thinking about a cash purchase of a second hand Leaf now.....
johnm wrote:I'm not sure I see the point of a hybrid, it's a bit like a diesel electric loco, the electric part is really little more than a transmission system AFAICS.

My BMW 530e is an absolute joy - best car I've ever had. I'm averaging well in excess of 80 mpg. From an electric only point of view, I can bimble around town all weekend without using any fuel.

On the motorway when running solely on the petrol engine, I'm getting a remarkable 44.1 mpg and that is not at 70mph... or 80...

The performance when both the electric motor and petrol engine kick in together is more than adequate propelling the nearly 2 tonne car to 60 in under 6 seconds.

It also makes the start-stop system absolutely transparent as it always starts using the electric motor.

I've had the car for 9 months now and have not noticed any change in my electricity bill. I changed tariffs about the same time I got the car, so whatever trivial saving I made by doing that has cancelled out the charging cost.

In my opinion, it's the best of both worlds for now. I don't like the Tesla, and have no interest in the other full electric vehicles (LEAF et al).
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
Very interesting @stevelup We never "bimble round town" we either walk or cycle on those trips, most of our journeys are going somewhere and we can clock up 200 miles in a heartbeat, so maybe a hybrid has something to recommend it after all.........
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