[HASELL]

Five aircraft sold to Finland i see in Flyer this month.

Anyone know of any civvi equivalents on the south coast?

Brilliant aircraft. Hoping to see some around when the Prefect enters full service.

[Balliol]

28 are going to Finland, rest are staying on the UAS/AEF contract. There are some ex Navy Grob 115 Herons around - Aeros at Gloucester have one

[Rob P]

Interesting comment.

In what way are they 'brilliant aircraft'? I've never heard that said before.

Rob P

[Sir Morley Steven]

They work well with cheapo passive headsets I hear.

[Paul_Sengupta]

In what way are they 'brilliant aircraft'?

Most are Dulux white.

[Lockhaven]

In what way are they 'brilliant aircraft'?

Most are Dulux white.

With dodgy props.

[chevvron]

Five aircraft sold to Finland i see in Flyer this month.
.

At least they got something back for them albeit sold at a loss.
The RAF are giving away some of their Air Cadet Grob 109 Vigilant fleet - back to the manufacturer so they can then tart them up and re-sell them for a vast profit.

[Balliol]

Tutors have never been owned by the RAF at all - ownership always has been with the contractor

[sky_high30]

Actually quite liked flying the G115E on UAS. 120kt cruise at 24/24, wobbly (very wobbly depending on aircraft) prop, reasonably aerobatic but stable enough for a ham fisted fast jet wannabee to be able to learn formation.

Admittedly wasn't a bulldog, but it was free flying.

[davef77]

Actually quite liked flying the G115E on UAS. 120kt cruise at 24/24, wobbly (very wobbly depending on aircraft) prop, reasonably aerobatic but stable enough for a ham fisted fast jet wannabee to be able to learn formation.

Admittedly wasn't a bulldog, but it was free flying.

Forgive the thread drift, but...

Is stable really good for teaching formation?

I did a formation course with CRM (the course is the subject of an article in the "other" mag this month) flying T67s.

I have also been lucky enough to have flown formation in my Pitts and more recently in my CAP 231ex.

I thought that it was much easier in the Pitts and the CAP than in the T67.

The responsiveness of the controls and excess of power seemed to make it quite a lot easier to me.

[AlanC]

The responsiveness of the controls and excess of power seemed to make it quite a lot easier to me.

Power certainly helps as a means of adjustment - I was lucky enough to learn formation flying in the 260 variant of the T67, a joy to fly, and far superior to the replacement cheaper thing. 120kts at 21" with plenty spare for formation manoeuvring made life fairly simple. A downside of the lower powered models is that the airframe simply isn't as nice or as positive at lower speeds - as students we were perfectly happy with formation speeds between 100 and 140+, with 120 feeling about right. The Tutor's 90kt formation teach speed is a little more wallowy...

[Human Factor]

I did my formation training in the Yak-52 years ago. Lovely. Still do it when I can, although I prefer 2xChang when it can be arranged.

I occasionally instruct formation for CRM and the T67 in 160hp form is more challenging. I would go so far as to say the T67 is a good basic formation training platform because of its limitations.

[davef77]

I did my formation training in the Yak-52 years ago. Lovely. Still do it when I can, although I prefer 2xChang when it can be arranged.

I occasionally instruct formation for CRM and the T67 in 160hp form is more challenging. I would go so far as to say the T67 is a good basic formation training platform because of its limitations.

I can definitely see that.

I found the formation course initially quite challenging.

The first time I got to try out my new skills, post-course, was in my CAP a few months later and I was a bit wary, assuming that my skills would have degraded, but actually it felt easy in comparison and well within my comfort zone.

It is like learning to fly aerobatics in something a bit more challenging rather than going straight to a Pitts or an Extra, which both make it too easy. I think it broadens your capabilities a bit further.

[Idr15]

Being a CPL in the RAFAC, and having flown many times, I would say the 115E is an amazing aircraft. Boscombe Down has already got a couple of 120TPs. Can be a bit unstable when climbing but overall is brilliant.

[kanga]

.. Boscombe Down has already got a couple of 120TPs....

'Prefect', another revived formerly Avro name:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_626

just for completeness, there was also (and also in RAF service):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingsby_Prefect </geek >