Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1553390
bogopper wrote:
matthew_w100 wrote:Are we allowed to talk about it yet? Or do we have to wait for the AAIB before being permitted to speculate?


<<<<<<< so, nosewheel RV's... who would have them

Mark >>>>>


Just as a point of note the RV-12 (mit nose wheel) is a very different kettle of fish to its larger siblings. The nose undercarriage leg is a parallel tube design (not tapered rod) and the nose wheel tyre itself (of the same size as the mains) gives a fair bit of 'suspension'.

That nose leg design coupled to a very powerful all flying horizontal stab (you can hold the nose wheel off the ground on the landing roll down to very low speeds) means the front end is very light on the nose wheel.

And it's still a hoot to fly :wink:
#1553391
Time to confess. I was the pilot of G-VS. Below is part of the account which i am preparing to submit to the AAIB and insurance co:

"After joining the circuit at Old Sarum, I flew 3 circuits on runway 24. The weather conditions were good, but a moderate north westerly wind (the AG radio reported wind of 280-300° at 10-15kts during the 4 circuits) created a turbulent crosswind over the runway and final approach, as it passed over the large hangars to the North of the runway.
On the 4th circuit, the turbulence on the last 200 feet of the final approach was a little worse, particularly as I went over the hedge and industrial units, just to the east of the threshold. As I crossed the threshold at a height of 10-15feet, I experienced a sudden down draft. Despite applying full power and pitch up, I made a hard touch down in a level attitude, before climbing away and going around to fly a 5th circuit
Concerned that I might have damaged the noseleg, I elected to fly a soft field approach holding the nosewheel off for as long as possible. I was able to execute this, but as the nosewheel touched down, it progressively collapsed. The propeller subsequently dug into the grass runway, causing the aircraft to flip over, halting in a inverted position on the runway. After rapidly closing down fuel and electrics, I was able to exit the aircraft unhurt with the help of bystanders, who lifted the tail up."


As you might imagine i have done some considerable reflection on the events over the last few days. These are my thoughts:

1. I should have made a go around much earlier in that approach on the 4th circuit -i.e. as i was reaching the turbulence over the industrial units.

2. My airspeed on final approach of the 4th circuit was probably a little slow. I was aiming for the normal 70kt approach speed, making no allowance for the gusty crosswind. This has probably bled off to 60-65 by the time I was crossing the threshold at 10-15ft height, leaving little energy in reserve to deal with the down draft.

3. Concerned that I might have damaged the noseleg, I could have done asked the AG radio operator to confirm this (it was apparently obvious to witnesses on the ground) . This would have given me the option of diverting to a another AD with a paved runway, perhaps more into wind, where the prop might not have dug into the soft grass, maybe avoiding flipping over. I aware that there are a lot of mights and maybes in that paragraph.

4. I did hit the mag switch the moment I felt the noseleg start to give give way. This was in vain at preventing overturning. I could have done this earlier, but would have had less control over the touchdown.

5. After I came to a standstill, as there was no smell of fuel, I waited for the help of the kind bystanders who lifted the tail. This allowed me to open the canopy and get out easily. I could have openned the canopy before flipping but this would probably have made me more vulnerable to a head injury had the aircraft inverted at a higher airspeed. I think that it would have been difficult, but not impossible, to get out unaided through the broken perpex had things been more urgent.



For the record, I'm unhurt apart from a few v minor grazes sustained on exiting, although my pride has taken a serious dent. The aircraft is in hangar awaiting assessment by the insurers. I have no idea about its future at present.
Talkdownman, Rob P, Spooky and 32 others liked this
#1553397
Learn from others, I must be careful.
Image

The RV9A here had the noseleg stiffener, but I doubt this RV6A does and it is operating off a rough field.
I did indeed approach at 80 mph in this aeroplane, it felt okay, and 70 mph (60KIAS) while normal in the type might have been slow for the conditions. (Add 5 knots if loaded at or above maximum gross weight).
The drag builds quickly and windshear can indeed make the approach hazardous. There was a Cb dumping rain and air and I landed into a wind in the opposite direction to my takeoff ( both into wind!).
Made sure that the nosewheel touched down at minimum speed. It is a major worry for me when I fly this type, sorry if my impression is wrong.

Maybe rebuild the aeroplane as a tailwheel. The RV6 is a relatively easy tailwheel aeroplane, and the number of safe landing options are increased.

Another suggestion I have is to imagine the ground as the bottom of a stream, look at the tree rocks, the building rocks, and imagine how water will flow around them and eddy. It can build the mind's expectation of what the air might be doing down there.
#1553408
How true that is MM. I still replay my EFATO in my mind at least once a week.

Having read the account above I am still convinced that I was right to avoid the crosswise ploughed field, the straight ahead option.

Being unsure how many people were around I could well have spent a goodly time trapped in the inverted aircraft.

It does seem though that fire isn't the inevitable result.

Clearprop1, how much fuel was on board?

Rob P
#1553410
matthew_w100 wrote:Two questions then:

1) can you get out of one of them on your own when it's upside-down?
2) what proportion of the sky-gods here would have turned the engine off and cut the fuel once a further go-around became unlikely?


There was another incident last year (RV9A), after that incident I carry an axe, strapped behind the passenger seat.....
#1553414
Grumpy One wrote:
seanxair wrote:Poor sod. All over the internet before he called his family probably. :(


Hardly - Evidently It was over two days ago. But if you feel aggrieved, then I'll delete the whole topic.


Not aggrieved. Just sympathetic. And glad to see and hear that the pilot is OK.
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