[Slim Squirrel]

Hi,

I am considering aircraft ownership and want to make sure that I understand fully all of the costs prior to committing to anything. Looking at something like a Piper warrior or arrow.

Basic costs are straight forward but there seems to be some variation on servicing costs, specifically:

ARC
Annual Radio Inspection
Annual
50 Hour

How much should I looking to pay for the above?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[flybymike]

Don't forget to add hangarage and insurance to your costs, not to mention interim maintenance and repairs, ADs etc.

We have had an annual cost as little as 2k and as much as 12k.

[Paul_Sengupta]

ARC

Not sure, mine doesn't have one (LAA) but from what I've seen on here, somewhere between £300 and £1000 maybe?

Annual Radio Inspection

Can't remember exactly but I think maybe £300ish? That sort of ballpark.

Annual

A basic annual comes in at about £2k usually, plus any ADs and things which need to be inspected, plus any rectification work for any problems. For older aeroplanes some people always seem to come out with £5k annuals. Mine's 1974 and I haven't had that experience. Though a couple of years ago was a biggy for me as I had the engine, prop and gear legs overhauled, so £30k+.

50 Hour

Usually about £450ish though you can do your own if the aeroplane is only for personal use.

[Dave W]

50 Hour

Usually about £450ish though you can do your own if the aeroplane is only for personal use.

To emphasise the second half of Paul's sentence: 10-15% of that if on an LAA Permit and done yourself (which is worth doing anyway, to know your aircraft - and it is well within the capabilities of most people.

[Paul_Sengupta]

To emphasise the second half of Paul's sentence: 10-15% of that if on an LAA Permit and done yourself

A little more than that.

About £25 for an oil filter and £40-£50 worth of oil.

And pretty much the same price if it's on a C of A...

As for Annual Inspection costs, an Arrow will be a bit more as it has wobbly gear so they need to jack it up and test that I believe. It also has a wobbly prop which will need overhauling every 6 years (about £3-£3.5k) and then blades replacing at some point because they've gone out of spec after being overhauled too much...

[Dave W]

Fair enough: I wasn't comparing like with like.

But the key lesson stands: DIY and save* a lot, as well as learn a lot about your aircraft and find that some of this engineering malarkey is not as mysterious as you thought.


*Well, you won't save it. You'll spend it on AVGAS. But it's the thought that counts.

[aerofurb]

Except that LAMP is no more (for private use ELA1 - which an Arrow or Warrior would qualify for) so under the manufacturer's maintenance programme or EASA's Minimum Inspection Programme, there is no radio annual required. An inspection to make sure that the kit is bolted in securely and a functional check is called up under MIP. Manufacturer's requirements are often less...

50 Hour Check - no longer exists as such. Piper may call up specific items to be checked at 50 hours, Lycoming say that the oil and filter be changed.

CAA ARC fee for an Arrow is about £78 IIRC. What a CAMO charges varies - some include in the cost of the Annual, some were charging £1/log book entry (ie day's flying) others £1/flight hour. A 'new' aircraft to the maintenance organisation/CAMO might charge more first time round as they dig through the log books.

The only real advantage of being under contract to a CAMO is having the ability to have the ARC extended twice. The CAA fee for an ARC extension or an ARC issue/renewal is the same.

Annual costs vary by geographical location (and possibly vary by depth or standards...). Certainly most charge more for a retractable/CS prop aircraft versus a fixed pitch single as there is more to do.

[seanjd]

We have two Warriors in the club.
Typically costs around £600 - £1000 for 50 hour checks. Annuals been costing between £3500 and £16000 (had engine change in the £16k bill).

£45 month for CAMO fees, plus hangarage, insurance, ARC etc.

Personally, I would want to budget £1000 per month for maintenance, and would want at least £20,000 tucked safely aside, for the 'what ifs', but I would be a lot more comfortable with £30,000 - £40,000.

[PeteSpencer]

We budget £1000 pm for annual, 50 hour, incidental maintenance, engine fund and prop fund for our elderly arrer.

Hopefully with only 500 hrs on the clock we shouldnt need an engine soon.

Add another £500pm for insurance (a/c and airfield third party) , Airfield lease.

Soon mounts up:

We have a healthy contingency fund as well: have never needed a cash call despite some pretty massive extra costs in last year.

Peter

[TLRippon]

Commander 112B, similar to an Arrow.

Annual around £4000
50 hour ends up at around £500
150 hour around £1500.
ARC Fee £450
Radio annual £250
Compass swing £150
Engine overhaul £17000
Prop overhaul £2000

It's not an ELA1 aircraft so still under LAMP for now.

[flybymike]

I think we've probably said enough to put slim squirrel off the idea of aircraft ownership for life by now.

[Dave W]

Not if (s)he's been paying attention to the the LAA Permit comments.

[Rod1]

LAA 4 seater

Annual maintenance (100h) and permit all in £1500

Hangarage in Midlands £1000

Insurance typically £1000

Radio inspection £0

Rod1

[TLRippon]

Commander 112B, similar to an Arrow.

Annual around £4000
50 hour ends up at around £500
150 hour around £1500.
ARC Fee £450
Radio annual £250
Compass swing £150
Engine overhaul £17000
Prop overhaul £2000

It's not an ELA1 aircraft so still under LAMP for now.

Edit: To add-
Hangarage £3600
Insurance £1300