Use this forum to flag up examples of red tape and gold plate
#1438581
When you say the fees aren't cheap, could you give me an idea of the likely cost? PM me if you prefer.


I think first year all in about £1200. subsequent years should just be the LAA permit fee plus the LAA inspector fee.

John
#1438584
This is obviously brilliant news. However the LAA website says the Gardan Horizon will be moved to an EASA Permit , likewise the Pup. So whilst this is all good stuff at the moment I read it that it is not fully going to a full LAA permit instead going to an EASA permit administered by the LAA what ever that difference is.
See here:-
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co. ... eagle.html
User avatar
By Irv Lee
#1438597
If it is an EASA permit to fly, doesn't this mean pilot must have an EASA licence from April 8th 2018? (ie: UK legacy PPLs or NPPL-SSEAs not valid in it from then)? Obviously small price to pay to get it on permit, but if you do need an easa licence, that's yet another confusion to add to the mix come April 2018.
#1438674
Yes it is true that you will need a LAPL or EASA licence to fly an EASA PtF aircraft.

I guess that is the next thing to start campaigning for, the right to fly any aircraft in UK with a National licence and then after that the right to fly any aeroplane in any country with a UK national licence.

But one step at a time.
#1438678
I am struggling to understand without further information how this will help the average owner from where he is at the moment.
Moving an aircraft to a EASA permit all annual maintenance will still have to be done to the same standard as at present and any Mods will still have to be authorised by EASA instead of the CAA.
All that it seems to to be doing is swapping one regulatory body to another with not a lot of financial gain to me. All it seems to be doing is shifting the admin to the LAA. :?
#1438742
I am struggling to understand without further information how this will help the average owner from where he is at the moment.
Moving an aircraft to a EASA permit all annual maintenance will still have to be done to the same standard as at present and any Mods will still have to be authorised by EASA instead of the CAA.
All that it seems to to be doing is swapping one regulatory body to another with not a lot of financial gain to me. All it seems to be doing is shifting the admin to the LAA.


Further information is; that in subsequent years I will only have to pay the permit renewal fee to the LAA + fee to the LAA inspector - this is cheaper that paying an annual fee to CAA and cheaper than paying an LAE to perform/signoff my annual and I no longer have to pay a CAMO.

It also allows for parts to be made, still in accordance with good engineering practice etc, but without needing a form 1.

So the only downside would be that I have to get MODS approved by EASA, But why would I want to mod a well designed aeroplane. Avionic changes can be signed off by local Inspector .

As for standards - there is only one standard of airworthiness. Its either airworthy or not. There is no lower standard of airworthiness for a PtF than for a CofA. I will still work on the aircraft to the same standard - but now instead of an LAE inspecting I have an LAA inspector, if anything they can be more "nitpicking".
#1458210
Well it seems the saga of the PtF for the Gardan Horizon is finally drawing to a close.

My CofA expired on 16th May and my flight test for the PtF happened on that very day. The LAA inspector signed off the initial Permit release to service and the documents are all with the LAA waiting for their recommendation to CAA that a permit should be issued.

So - what are the pro's and cons of this process.
The good things first:
The aircraft will be on an enduring PtF
It will be an EASA permit so am allowed to fly in Europe.
Costs of maintenance will reduce.
Am able to perform all maintenance myself at local airfield.
Repairs may be authorised by Inspector/LAA
Parts may be produced locally (with certain conditions)

Bad things:
Its taken a VERY long time
Its not what the French have.
Fees have been paid to EASA, just to approve flight conditions that were already approved in 1966.
Each aircraft owner will have to pay the same fee to EASA - my fee does not cover the type.
CAA charge a fee to approve what EASA approve which was already approved !!
LAA charge a fee to take on the type and drive the process (Money well spent).

The total cost in terms of time are incalculable
The monetary cost has been 700 Euro + £450 + £350 + £100 for EASA , CAA, LAA, Inspections etc.
#1458321
Does the requirement for all group members to be LAA members, with at least one of them being a full technical member apply to aircraft that are on an EASA PtF administered by the LAA?

That's an additional cost if so, variable dependant on the size of the group.
#1458353
Thanks for that analysis -- it's very useful. Could you break down the costs
The total cost in terms of time are incalculable
The monetary cost has been 700 Euro EASA Flight Conditions + £450 CAA Input + £350 Fee to LAA + £100 Inspector

Does the requirement for all group members to be LAA members, with at least one of them being a full technical member apply to aircraft that are on an EASA PtF administered by the LAA?

Yes - I didnt include that as already members

Perhaps you should send an email to the CAA ref GOLD PLATING on this

Well perhaps after the dust has settled and I have the bit of paper in my hand (not to be this weekend :-(( ) and then will perhaps try and ask the questions about cost and times.

John