Use this forum to flag up examples of red tape and gold plate
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By Josh
#1221091
It surely can't be that hard to get PLD to start doing something sensible and issuing a temporary paper licence after a skills test so you can use the privileges of your new licence or rating immediately, rather than having to wait whatever the FCL delay is these days (months at times) to get going.

As far as I can see, there's nothing that forbids it apart from a desire of FCL to keep the power. The expiration date should solve any issues if they find some ridiculous paperwork glitch somewhere.
User avatar
By Genghis the Engineer
#1221109
That would probably also massively benefit PLD. It's much easier to do a good job if not under constant pressure to do a quick job.

G
User avatar
By Keef
#1221113
Why not go one step further, and allow the examiner to issue a temporary licence valid (say) three months? If the CAA is taking his word that the candidate has the necessary skills to fly as pilot in command, the licensing thing can't be critical. The CAA will check all the paperwork anyway, so will identify any examiners who consistently get it wrong.
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By Josh
#1221127
Sorry, that was what I meant (ie the FAA style if I dare say it).
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By SteveN
#1221223
I put this very suggestion to CAA at the Gatwick ATO meeting last Friday. Unfortunately the answer was an abrupt "NO"

As for temporary, why? AMEs don't issue a temporary medical certificate. They are online to the CAA, print out the CAA document directly and that's it. If the new GA unit is going to be self contained this would relieve them of a significant task. CAA can still "wet it's beak" as it does with medicals.
The Other Ian liked this
User avatar
By Dave W
#1221226
SteveN wrote:I put this very suggestion to CAA at the Gatwick ATO meeting last Friday. Unfortunately the answer was an abrupt "NO"


Did they provide a valid reason? If not, it would appear to vary from the stated aims of this initiative and so worthy of challenge.
By David Roberts
#1221230
Dave W wrote:
SteveN wrote:I put this very suggestion to CAA at the Gatwick ATO meeting last Friday. Unfortunately the answer was an abrupt "NO"


Did they provide a valid reason? If not, it would appear to vary from the stated aims of this initiative and so worthy of challenge.


Agree. Definitely raise.
By Bathman
#1221242
Go one step further.

The examiner logs into the CAA website and fills application in directly. The examiner then prints off the licence in the same way the AME does with a medical.
User avatar
By SteveN
#1221288
Dave W wrote:
SteveN wrote:I put this very suggestion to CAA at the Gatwick ATO meeting last Friday. Unfortunately the answer was an abrupt "NO"


Did they provide a valid reason? If not, it would appear to vary from the stated aims of this initiative and so worthy of challenge.


They had announced additional online forms at the meeting and stated that should improve things.

To be fair to the CAA people present, the morning was about the RTF-->ATO transition so they may not have been aware of the proposed GA unit and the implications of it being self contained.
User avatar
By Dave W
#1221486
G-BLEW earlier posted a link to a useful tabulated list of "Red Tape Challenge" comments, and the CAA's Comment and Intent.

A couple of them are relevant here:

56
CAA should issue temporary permits/licences/certificates for immediate use before receiving full document.

This is permitted under the EU regulations, and consideration will be given to introduce this facility where there are clear benefits to be gained.

We agree. Consideration will be given to introduce this facility where permitted by EU Regulation and where clear benefits exist.In general there is only commercial urgency for commercial pilots flying with airlines. This introduces the risk that temporary certificates/licences may be challenged during SAFA/Ramp checks in other countries. The perception that temporary certificates are needed may have arisen due to the recent delays in the issuance of licences that resulted from the transition to new EU regulations. Turnaround times have now returned to normal (pre-transition) and work is in progress to shorten these times further. Adding temporary certificates will add another layer of complexity which may be unnecessary if licences can be issued by the CAA more expeditiously.


54
Many suggested moving to online system so that people can print off licences, permits, certificates etc. This would also speed up applications and reduce cost.

The CAA is moving towards on-line application and payment processes which will benefit industry. However, UK and EU legislation stipulates that only the CAA may issue certificates and licences. Licences are printed on paper that is designed to prevent falsification. Attempts to alter/falsify licences and other certificates are not uncommon. Therefore it is not seen as being feasible at this time to allow applicants themselves to undertake the printing of official documents such as licences, certificates, permissions etc.However, the Process and Performance Improvement initiative currently under way is looking at ways of using electronic signatures for certain documents such as exemptions.

We partially agree. Item 33 cover on-line systems for applications. However current EU and national legislation stipulates that only the CAA may issue certificates and licences. The CAA will consider with its ICAO partners investigating opportunities for centralisation of aviation records.
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By SteveN
#1222466
CAA response 152 wrote:FTOs should be able to issue licences and ratings in the same way as AMEs issue medical certificates. No need for further CAA role when it already audits the FTO.

The legislation stipulates that only “Competent Authorities” - the CAA in the UK may issue licences and ratings.

European law requires the "Competent Authority" to issue the licences. Nevertheless, the CAA is open to discussion with industry to explore ways in which to lessen the regulatory burden. ATOs can , for example, make the recommedation for the issue of a licence and the CAA then has only to print and issue the document, without reviewing any supporting documentation. We would like to see more ATOs working in this way.
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By JonathanB
#1226941
In the ATC world, the CAA Examiner (from SRG) who oversees the initial examination board can and does issue a temporary licence on the spot on passing so that the controller can work immediately (or maybe from the next day at least).