Use this forum to flag up examples of red tape and gold plate
User avatar
By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909302
Just ranting really.

Just going through the process of adding the MEP to my UK CPL. To do this I have to prove that I have over 70 hours PiC of aeroplanes.

Which I had to have umpty years ago to get my CPL, and clearly those hours haven't subsequently gone down.

So I have to provide my logbook. Like many people I have an electronic logbook, like many other people also I have 4-figure hours.

So I have to print the whole lot out, sign each page (19 sides of A3 in very small print), scan that in (degrading the quality) creating a PDF, then send it to CAA - to prove to them that I have more than 70hrs PiC, which I already proved to them twice over a decade ago for issue of both my CPL, and my CRI.

Just, well, why? Either a simple PDF from my electronic logbook and statement that it's true (a tick box on an online form would suffice) or even better, CAA can just check that they've already issued me with a licence that required more than that, and exempt me from the requirement - thus saving time, paper, and effort for all concerned.

Or actually the third option, and that taken by the IAA when I applied for the same rating to be added to the equivalent EASA licence - trust the ATO and examiner to have checked my logbook and confirmed I was eligible to take the skill test.

G
By malcolmfrost
#1909304
Is this actually another WFH issue? I guess that many can't get secure access to data systems at home. I'm having a similar problem trying to get a GHIC. Every document needs to be in my full name, no utilities do that, I sent copies of my driving licence which has full name and address but apparently isn't acceptable... :?
User avatar
By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909307
I can't see why. There are other documents which are definitely needed, such as the course completion certificate, it's just this specific one is creating work for everyone for no obvious benefit
User avatar
By Rob P
#1909313
It's happening all over.

Sandra had a bank account in her maiden name. We have operated it online perfectly happily with a regular payment going in and occasional payments going out.

We needed to transfer a few thousand and it was denied and I then had the fraud department of Barclays onto me, but they couldn't speak to her (in the car) and wouldn't speak to me (fair enough)

Long story truncated - she eventually ends up in a branch 13 miles away having taken a morning off work (She's temping, so that's a morning pay lost). Showed them her old passport, showed them her current one, showed them bank statements going back twenty years, showed them a recently issued debit card.

"We need to see you marriage certificate"

"But here's my passport. To get the name changed I had to show the Passport Office my marriage certificate or I wouldn't have been issued the passport."

"Yes, that's true. But I still need to see it."

"I have a copy on my phone"

"Not good enough, I need to see the paper original"

:wall:

Rob P
#1909314
I had a very similar issue when adding FI(A) to my licence. Already had CRI with aerobatics instructional privileges, and asked them to copy that privilege over to the FI(A).

Firstly they didn't do it.

Then when I said 'why not' they demanded the form I'd obviously sent them years previously to allow them to add aerobatics to my CRI. The course/requirements being the same for adding aerobatics to CRI or FI.

Not only can they not trust your examiner to have checked your log-book, they can't trust themselves to have checked anything mandatory previously either.

It is a rather sclerotic operation down there, and they just cause themselves unnecessary aggravation as well as the rest of us. Maybe when they tidy up/simplify the whole pilot licensing pudding the staff there will be able get their heads around some more straightforward rules and regulations.
flybymike liked this
User avatar
By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909326
malcolmfrost wrote:
> But you said you had already declared the hours for your CPL?

Double checking, yep.

For a CPL, minimum requirement of 200hrs TT (150hrs for integrated) of which at least 100hrs PiC, which can reduce to 70hrs if you went integrated (which I didn't).

Comfortably exceeded of course from years of PPLing before, and years of both private and professional flying after, but the bottom line is that if you have a CPL, you must have at least 70hrs PiC. So basically, professional licence holders shouldn't be being asked for proof of 70hrs PiC, as they must by definition already have it.

G
User avatar
By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909338
malcolmfrost wrote:
> That's what I'm getting at, if someone WFH can't access those
> records........it's apparently a problem at the DVLA.

But the only information that they require is what licence I hold and there's a copy of that in the application.

G
User avatar
By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909342
Dusty_B wrote:
> Are they really asking for ALL your log books, or just evidence of at least
> 70 hours? I’d just send the last years worth.

The wording is a bit ambiguous including...

"certified copy of your Logbook showing your 70 hours as PIC "

" all relevant original flying logbooks, or certified copies"

"If using an electronic logbook, you will be required to print and sign each page of the document"

Irrespective, it's all pointless makework.

G
User avatar
By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909343
I've noticed a real shift since Covid kicked off with signing documents.
For a long time I've tried to use electronic signing systems like Docusign, Echosign, Hellosign etc
Take-up was mixed, and often I would be asked to follow-up by sending a scan of a physically signed signature page*
Now there seems to be near universal acceptance of electronically signed documents, even from quite traditional government departments.
I no longer ask if it's ok, and just send Docusign docs by default.

* The 'just send a scan of the signature page' being a good example of the many weaknesses of relying on ink signatures - as it proves nothing about the other pages of the document being unaltered, but bizarrely people used to prefer it to a digitally signed document that couldn't be altered.