Use this forum to flag up examples of red tape and gold plate
#1899821
Here’s my tale of woe…..

PPL since 1986 and still current, CPL then ATPL/ IR since 1990 and still current. Originally UK issued but was forced to SOLI to an EU state due to EASA ten years ago as I work for an EU airline - have done so for 24 years. Didn’t set out to but the small UK airline I worked for was taken over by an EU carrier so over we all went….!

The EASA creation seemed a pain at the time - but I weathered it and it was always my intention to SOLI back to the UK if and when my EU employment finishes. I have no intention of ever working for another EU carrier. So with Brexit and the UK divorce procedure came the “UK Returner” process - which sounded well and good. Maybe some people have had success but there’s a lot of hoops that must be passed through. One too many for me sadly. Firstly one needs to apply for a UK Class One medical thereafter the ATPL application would follow. I applied for the medical mid 2021 (6 months in to the 2 year transition window). Having worked hard to obtain all my medical records since SOLI from the EU authority as requested by the CAA, I have now finally had my application rejected because …… since I submitted my application I have now had another recurrent EU medical revalidation - and because the examiner’s own AME authority had been revalidated since the Brexit date of 31-12-2020 he is not recognised by the UK…!

So the only way I could proceed is to undergo an Initial Class One examination at one of the 3 AeMC’s. My local AME cannot do it as it’s been over 5 years since I held a UK issued medical. The nearest AeMC is 200 miles away and the minimum cost would be well over £650 - just for the basic medical and that’s if nothing else needs following up. So for me it’s a non-starter - I will just have to accept that when I finish working in the EU my cap & goggles will be hung up for good. The cost and hassle of an initial Class One is just not worth it - plus I have no idea if 53 year olds (almost 54!) like me have any chance of passing an initial again? I imagine that the average age of initial Class One applicants is 23 or less, not 53…!

But there is a bright side - praise to the Lord I have always kept and maintained my old Brown UK PPL which is current for SEP - so I will always be able to continue flying my good old LAA permit aeroplane as I have always done.

I’m not bitter and twisted or emotionally distressed about all of this - I just feel rather sad that things have come to this. All those years ago when I sweated and toiled to proudly achieve my UK commercial licence and Instrument Rating I never though I would lose it again through politics. Nice one Boris, Nigel and all the other Brexiteers - have a drink on me! (On second thoughts - NO!).
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By Flyin'Dutch'
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#1899862
I was recently contacted by a pilot with this very same issue (I don't think it was you) and the UK CAA quoted the same, EASA AME was revalidated since the Brexit date and therefore the medical could not be considered to be issued by an AME who was an EASA AME before Brexit date.

The pilot who contacted me was not a current pilot/customer but had contacted me to see if I could help. I pointed out to the CAA that revalidations of AMEs is done at random times (as it depends where you are in your cycle) and that if someone has been an EASA AME since the start of the days (OK 2012) then that is a continuous designation.

I have emailed them my view last week and not heard anything back.

It seems there is little logic in the approach they have taken.
#1899898
@Flyin'Dutch' - Thank you for your comments on this. I thought the same - My EASA AME’s authorisation document copy (that I had to obtain for the CAA) shows his AME number to be from 2005, a revalidation made in 2018 and again in June 2021 (the one that scuppered me). I have had my last 5 revalidations with this same chap! So, as you say I’ve been stung by where he is in his own revalidation cycle. If his cycle was a year later than what it is then I might have been ok! Such is luck!

Just out of interest Frank, apart from the cost & hassle, is there much difference between the examinations for AeMC initial & local AME revalidations for Class One? I’m unlikely to do an initial but not completely ruled it out…! Trying to gauge if an oldie like me would have any chance of passing it…! :D
Thanks again for your comments!
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By Flyin'Dutch'
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#1899915
It is always a thankless task to predict whether people pass a medical without......doing a medical.

Having to do a new initial is a right royal pain in the proverbial but there are few differences in standard between an initial, renewal and revalidation. So on the balance of probabilities you should be OK. (no warranties given or implied of course!)
#1899918
@Flyin'Dutch' - again, Thank You for your helpful comments! Of course - I would not ask opinion about my personal medical situation as we’ve never met - it was a general question about differences in standards between initial & renewal -but if as you say there’s little difference then maybe there would be a chance…! :D
All the best, J
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By Irv Lee
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#1899925
Not ideal as it is still paying money when it would be better not to ... If doing a UK initial is the problem, what happens if you find another EASA AME who had not changed paperwork since 2020 and do another class 1 ?
#1899980
@Irv Lee - Thank you very much for your suggestion. I do love creative thinking and creative work-arounds…! Great suggestion, would it work? Dunno! I will ask the CAA - so that’s another few weeks delay!
My 2020 medical had an expiry of 20 Dec 2021 (that’s the one that would have been legit). But then I had a reval in Nov 2021 which took the expiry to 20 Dec 2022 - that most recent reval is the bug in the woodpile as the examiner’s own authority was renewed in July 2021. I would certainly give your suggestion a go but just fear if I had an EASA reval done again today the CAA would say, Oy - what about the time between 20 Dec 2021 and today? - what was going on there? Certainly worth following up though and thank you again for the thought.

Questions for @Flyin'Dutch'
- Do you think there’s a chance that Irv’s suggestion above might be acceptable to the CAA?
- Are you still a Netherlands EASA AME? And if so with an authorisation that’s been unmolested since before 31-12-2020?
- And if so, would you be in a position and prepared to do an NL EASA revalidation on me? I would be a very happy and willing customer…! :D

Thanks to you both! J
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By Irv Lee
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#1900001
It would be pretty vindictive if the caa refused a medical due to who had done it, then refused another medical because you had complied with and accepted their decision.
How much approx is an easa class 1 if you already have one? Is it worth just doing it? If it is merely a trained sloth with a pre written checklist that you are dealing with, it would likely work. Ask the question and maybe they would change the checklist against you before you apply
#1900013
Thanks @Irv Lee - you make a very strong case. I will definitely look into doing that, would be hugely simpler than an initial if it worked out!
Do you know if any EASA AME can conduct an EASA revalidation regardless of State of Issue? My state of issue is the Netherlands and I’d thought that they had to be approved by the relevant State - but I do know nothing about such matters…. :shock:
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By Irv Lee
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#1900015
i think @Flyin'Dutch' will confirm EASA State of AME approval doesn't matter as long as the AME is approved in one and knows that you are NL. My AME in the UK is EASA as well as UK, so there should be one somewhere near you. It might be that the new examination counts as a 'renewal' even though it isn't, because you are not in the final 42 days. Again Frank might know if there is a big difference on what they do to you.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
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#1900049
@Irv Lee - a medical undertaken more than 45 days ahead of the expiry date of the previous medical is indeed a renewal and not a revalidation, and as such (although not relevant for the current discussion) give a new expiry date.

@JonBoy - a personal Brexit benefit for me was that until 31/12/2020 I was a Dutch Doc, doing EASA Medicals in Germany under a UK designation - the British Crown on continentals' medicals was much relished.

Cameth the 1/1/2021 I was no longer a UK EASA AME but a UK CAA AME and I Soli'd my AME work to the Germans. My licence was Soli'd to the Swiss.

As such I am therefore unable to offer a service for your plan.

I can do you of course a UK CAA Medical here in Germany, but that is for the intended exercise of no use methinks. Send email if you want to explore further, and if you do let me know why you went to the Dutch for your licence - did you fly F27s between the motherland and Norwich?
#1900069
@Irv Lee - all very interesting thanks, I’m certainly fishing in some areas I’ve never visited before…! Definitely going to follow this up, but I will attempt to obtain some sort of acceptance from the CAA. Brilliant though the plan undoubtably is if it worked, if it didn’t work it would be lost money. Will attempt to phone them next week - there is a very helpful chap there, just takes about 3 weeks to get hold of him because he’s so busy. Will report back…!

@Flyin'Dutch' - close! I joined the old Air Uk many years ago, starting on the Fokker 50 (slightly more modern F-27) based at Humberside, but did operate the Norwich route to the “Motherland” many times…! I’m still there, based in Amsterdam now on the Embraer. Eventually KLM bought Air UK and over a long period the aircraft became NL registered. Still ok until EASA was created and they had the rule that for FCL checks the candidate’s licence had to be of the same State of Issue as the examiner. There was a work-around that but it was too unwieldy for a large company’s planning department to handle so 10 years ago they insisted we SOLI’d to the NL. Still would have been OK, I could in the future have SOLI’d back on retirement except that Brexit has made that route somewhat perilous….!
Your own Brexit story is interesting & complex too, involving multi-nations!
Cheers, Jon