Use this forum to flag up examples of red tape and gold plate
By johnm
#1697922
IIRC when approaching a FISO field it would go something like as follows:

Anytown information GABCD inbound from the West with 10 minutes to run request joining information.

GCD runway in use 27 left hand circuit QNH 1013 QFE 1003 and circuit is active.

27 left hand 1013 1003 GCD

I am then expected to join as per published procedures.
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By Dave W
#1697937
Well, yes - that's what I do and I think most everybody does.

But on the face of it that's not compliant with 6(c) of Rule 11 as quoted by FD earlier.

@Ender: Is this particular thing one of the MOR triggers being discussed?
By cockney steve
#1697981
Would this be the same Barton that is posting an atis showing
runway 08 L lefthand circuit,
but it's NW webcam is showing a signal square displaying 26 right hand ?

It's precipitating, as usual and there are no heaps of wreckage all over the place, so I guess the likelihood of a non-radio, distressed emergency diversion without PPR is pretty remote......but what do they say about casting the mote from one's own eye?

There again, I hold no aviation qualifications, so what do I know? :P
By ANDSAM
#1698086
The staff that dish out the MOR’s at Barton all need a more practical consistent approach which indirectly will reduce risk of a pilot making a nervous mistake due to being fearful/ preoccupied with the apparent trip wires in place
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By Yankee-K
#1698830
"Confidentiality
Occurrence Reports are treated confidentially to maintain full and free reporting from the aviation community and to protect the identity of the individual in accordance with EU legislation."
If that is the case, how are commercial pilots losing their licence?
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By PaulB
#1698831
Is there more to this "commercial pilots losing their licence" than meets the eye (or we're being told)?
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1698840
communicate the aircraft’s position and height.. on entering the aerodrome traffic zone and immediately prior to leaving it.


How many actually make that call immediately prior to leaving an ATZ?

If the frequency is very busy, and assuming in Class G so not needing an onward clearance for adjoining CAS or an adjacent ATZ, I think most just leave the ATZ and make a call when they can get a word in. Are these the ones getting an MOR at Barton?

For those that follow the quoted rule strictly, I can imagine PPLs having different opinions of where they should be flying within an ATZ whilst trying to get their escape call in but cant get a word in edgeways. For the inexperienced or rusty it puts their workload right up to a level similar to when a ground station broadcasts a change of runway to the reciprocal with 3 or 4 aircraft in the circuit and they never had that experience during their training!
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By flybymike
#1698844
Yankee-K wrote:"Confidentiality
Occurrence Reports are treated confidentially to maintain full and free reporting from the aviation community and to protect the identity of the individual in accordance with EU legislation."
If that is the case, how are commercial pilots losing their licence?

I imagine that the majority of CAA licence action is as a result of a MOR. If the identity of the pilot were to be disallowed, we could get rid of awareness courses for things which pilots are already aware of, and acknowledge that infringements are caused by mistake and not by deliberate action.
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By flybymike
#1698845
GAFlyer4Fun wrote:
communicate the aircraft’s position and height.. on entering the aerodrome traffic zone and immediately prior to leaving it.


How many actually make that call immediately prior to leaving an ATZ?

Virtually none. Looks like we all need locking up.
By johnm
#1698847
flybymike wrote:
GAFlyer4Fun wrote:
communicate the aircraft’s position and height.. on entering the aerodrome traffic zone and immediately prior to leaving it.


How many actually make that call immediately prior to leaving an ATZ?

Virtually none. Looks like we all need locking up.


I do if I can get a word in edgewise :oops:
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By SpeedBrake
#1699237
Sounds like a lot of MORs to me. Some of the comments here make out like we are all saints and all of us make mistakes. My experience is that there is a small but significant number of our fraternity who will just do what they want when they want, even though they should know better.

I've worked in several FISO units before, and unfortunately the closed environment of the glass box often means frustrations fester. Its easy to see a unit thinking "sod it, just file an MOR, that'll teach them".

A good FISO unit should try and resolve issues locally. Not trying to hide genuine safety concerns from the CAA, but its always better when pilots and ATSUs work together.
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By PaulB
#1699936
Dave W wrote:I asked earlier, and am still interested to know: What sorts of deviances are the MORs typically being raised for?


This hasn't been answered has it? It's interesting that the original post refers to infringement reports

Ender wrote:For example last year Barton accounted for about 18% of all infringement reports in the UK, the average is about 1.4 infringements per airfield a year. Barton raised 23.


a subsequent post states that these pre-date the ADSB trial at Barton

barton group wrote:The increase in MORs predates the ADSB trial.


There was also comment about Rule 11 requiring pilots to

Dave W wrote:
communicate the aircraft’s position and height ... on entering the aerodrome traffic zone and immediately prior to leaving it.


Every day is a school day.


The last part is interesting as it's not fully reflected in the Skyway code published today

Image

No "height" mentioned here!

Just thought it was interesting that contacting a FISO on leaving the ATZ is mentioned. None of this answers the rest of the questions in this rather strange thread, though.
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