Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By mr spog
#1434562
I wanted to clarify the recency requirements for my LAPL (A). The full document was a complete minefield so I emailed the CAA for confirmation. This reply may help others who are unsure. (As I understand it, it is down to the pilot to ensure he meets the requirements and instructors no longer sign licences and send bits of paper of to the CAA. Is this correct?? Anyone??)

I can clarify the LAPL recency requirements are set out in FCL.140.A, which may be found in CAP804, Section 4, Part B, Subpart 1. I have highlighted the applicable reference below for your information:

FCL.140.A LAPL(A) — Recency requirements
(a) Holders of an LAPL (A) shall only exercise the privileges of their licence when the have completed, in the last 24 months, as pilots of aeroplanes or TMG:
(1) at least 12 hours of flight time as PIC, including 12 take-offs and landings;
and
(2) refresher training of at least 1 hour of total flight time with an instructor.
(b) Holders of an LAPL(A) who do not comply with the requirements in (a) shall:
(1) undertake a proficiency check with an examiner before they resume the exercise of the privileges of their licence; or
(2) perform the additional flight time or take-offs and landings, flying dual or solo under the supervision of an instructor, in order to fulfil the requirements in (a).

I have attached a link to this publication from the CAA website for your review:

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplic ... agetype=65

We hope this clarifies the requirements and satisfactory answers your query.

Kind regards,
By LysanderV8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434567
Having just downgraded to a LAPL(A) I too am confused. I understand what the CAA says, but it would appear that the SEP(LAND) rating that is shown on my licence does not require to be renewed every 2 years any more. Is this correct?
By low&slow
#1434571
Before you go flying you should be able to look through your logbook and count, within the previous 24 months, either 12 hours of P1 flight time + 1 hour of refresher training or a proficiency check with an examiner. If you can do that you can legally go flying, if you can't you will need to comply with para (b) of FCL.140.A.

An LAPL(A) will have SEP &/or TMG privileges, not ratings. The licence & privileges are valid for life but may only be used if you meet the recency requirements.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434575
For LAPL there isn't an expiration date on your legality. Instead you have permanent rolling currency.

To work out whether, today, your rating is current go through this:
1. Have you had a proficiency check with an examiner in the last 24 months?
- If yes - you are current
2. Have you completed 1 hour of refresher training with an instructor in the last 24 months?
- If no - you are NOT current.
- If yes, go to 3.
3. Have you been pilot in command for 12 hours of flying and completed 12 take offs and landings in the last 24 months?
- If yes - you are current
- If no - you are not current.

If you aren't current you need to either:
a) do a proficiency check with an examiner
or
b) ensure you have completed 1 hour with an instructor in the last 24 months and do the extra flying and landings / takeoff to make yourself current as of (3) above - only you'll have to do them under instructor supervision.

Does writing it out a different way make it any clearer?
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By cotterpot
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434617
I am amazed that people take actions without knowing the consequenses. :shock:

I have an LAPL and am fully aware of the requirements to keep the licence valid.
It's not difficult.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434623
cotterpot wrote:I am amazed that people take actions without knowing the consequenses. :shock:
.

That's not just holders, you will find examiners/instructors signing them with expiry dates.,
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434652
Is it permissible to like something EASA has come up with?

I have a LAPL for my gliding activities and as I don't go gliding regularly enough I do some flights with an instructor every now and then, effectively resetting the 24 month clock.

Find that much more useful than having a fixed date by which I 'must' have done something to retain a valid licence.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434661
Are the gliding logging rules different then ? (Logging p 1 for example)
The lapl is apparently great in theory but like many European ideas, good in the way jumping off a cbuilding is fun for a certain time. The moment the insurance companies understand it and don't want to pay out on an accident by a lapl holder, it is an open goal for them.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434674
The essence is the same the numbers a bit different.

Within 24 months of intended flight:

Gliding: 5 hours PIC and 15 launches plus 2 training flights or a proficiency check.

LAPL (A or TMG) 12 hours (including 12 t/o & landings) plus training flight of 1 hour or proficiency check.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434678
So where do you get your P1 from? If you always go with an instructor because you have no p1, is there a huge difference between that and not having a licence at all?
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434681
I don't think I wrote I always fly with an instructor.

5 hours and 15 launches is not an awful lot of gliding in 24 months; and flying with any instructor counts as a training flight. A fair few instructors are also examiners and any flight with them, signed off is a proficiency check.

The issue of the rolling validity is something that does the rounds from time to time and I do appreciate it is different from the system for PPLs.

However there is nothing to stop people from choosing 24 months from their last 'zero-ing' of the clock with a proficiency check and use that as their expiry date; appreciate that for those who revalidate by experience some mental arithmetic is required but I content that this is simpler than working out drift angles during a diversion.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434684
Has the legislation gone through that puts the proficiency check in the list of items that give validity before any flight? ( I genuinely don't know, I know it was in the pipeline). Without it, open goal if they want to shoot. I also admit insurance companies nowadays seem to see an aircraft damage claim as below their radar, but if there were very big innocent bystander claims they might be interested in what the law actually says.
By flamair
#1434687
My apologies for a slightly lateral move on discussing this issue. The LAPL is all new to me as I've just come bcak to flying after 8 odd years away. I have renewed my PPL now as posted elsewhere. Am I correct in thinking that the PPL currency is much the same as it always was? 12hrs PIC during year 2 of the SEP rating's currency, and a 1 hour flight with an examiner, is how my (rather fading) memory has it imprinted.

I wonder if Irv, or any of the other experts could just cover these points?

My apologies for dragging the thread a little off course...

Many thanks ...
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1434689
Not quite, but it is as it was! :wink:

For class ratings like SEP, for reval by xperience, only final 12 months count... Requirements to get signed off before expiry are..
Twelve hours including at least an hour of training with an instructor, of which six hours at least must be P1 ,and twelve take offs and landings in p1 or put.
Nppl is different, it is over two years and different break down.
Lapl(a) validity needs at least thirteen hours in 24 months before any p1 flight, (so potential lack of validity is always the next flight), of which twelve hours are p1, and one is pu/t, and the 12 take offs and landings must be P1, but not many people know that
Last edited by Irv Lee on Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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