[140kias]

I note my EASA medical issued last year and valid for 1 year also has a 2 year validity for LAPL

In light of this Im considering converting my EASA Part.Fcl PPL to a LAPL. I know similar was possible with NPPL but cant find any guidance on this particular route.

Is anyone able to shed any light?

thanks
140K

[map5623]

I'd be interested to.

[Cookie]

A LAPL medical can only be used to validate a LAPL licence (or a UK NPPL, or a UK non-EASA PPL under ORS4 No.995).

You would have to forfeit your EASA PPL for a LAPL since you are only allowed to hold one EASA licence for each category of aircraft.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1190FFenabled1.pdf

For info: there is a proposal in EASA NPA 29 (consultation has just closed) which would mean you can exercise LAPL privileges with a PPL. Actually the proposal, as stated, would still need a Class 2 to validate the EASA PPL even when exercising LAPL privileges.

In summary, you would need to re-grade your PPL to a LAPL in order to use a LAPL medical with an EASA licence.

Cookie

[140kias]

thanks Cookie - however is this def the right form as it says ;

Application for the Re-Grade of UK Issued Pilots Licences to Part-FCL,
Private Pilot’s Licences, Light Aircraft Pilot Licences or National Private
Pilot Licences

thanks
140k

[Cookie]

You presumably have a UK issued pilots licence (UK issued EASA PPL)? If so, then yes.

Cookie

[hegemon88]

A daft question...

Suppose I apply and re-grade a UK-issued EASA PPL(A) to LAPL(A). Can I re-grade it again back to PPL(A) a year later, based on the fact I held it in the past and that the SEP(A) rating would still be valid, had I not surrendered the PPL(A) when re-grading to LAPL(A)?

Coat, hat, taxi...


/h88

[nickwilcock]

This topic has been raised by IAOPA as a response to NPA 2014-29. We suggested that, if you have a PPL and cannot hold a Class 2 medical for some reason, then all that should be necessary is that if you can hold a LAPL medical, then you should be able to fly aircraft permitted by the LAPL.

The problem is that validity requirements for each licence are quite different. We've already suggested harmonising them more closely; otherwise under the EASA proposals a PPL holder could, for example, drop down to a LAPL medical and fly on LAPL regulation, go past an SEP Class Rating revalidation date, then regain a Class 2 medical.............and have to take a renewal proficiency check despite having flown dozens of hours under LAPL requirements! Befehl ist Befehl!

[Cookie]

I submitted a similar response to NPA 2014-29 on behalf of LAA members.

Suppose I apply and re-grade a UK-issued EASA PPL(A) to LAPL(A). Can I re-grade it again back to PPL(A) a year later, based on the fact I held it in the past and that the SEP(A) rating would still be valid, had I not surrendered the PPL(A) when re-grading to LAPL(A)?

I had an airline pilot contact me a while ago who had temporarily lost his Class One medical, and wanted to fly light aircraft until his Class One was re-instated and he could return to work. He could obtain a LAPL medical, and was considering re-grading his ATPL(A) to a LAPL(A) until returning to Class One medical fitness. I suggested that a better route would be to obtain a NPPL(A) since you don't need to hand back your EASA licence, and there is currently no route within EASA legislation for re-grading back to the original (higher-grade) licence other than re-training again.

A NPPL(A) will be good for use in EASA aeroplanes until April 2018, by which time (hopefully) the legislation will have matured sufficiently.

Cookie

[Irv Lee]

and there is currently no route within EASA legislation for re-grading back to the original (higher-grade) licence other than re-training again.

Chalk up another 'fail' for the boys from EASA understanding practical aviation as she is flown.

A NPPL(A) will be good for use in EASA aeroplanes until April 2018, by which time (hopefully) the legislation will have matured sufficiently.
Cookie

By matured, it should be 'national licences ok in national airspace whatever the classification of aircraft'. If we lose the nppl in Easa certified aircraft, the full lunacy of the European dogmatists will become active without sensible solutions from people who are considering aviation rather than Politics when they open their mouths.

[Cookie]

Spot on, Irv. Let's hope the new CAA GA Unit see the benefit of retaining permission to exercise the privileges of a NPPL in EASA aircraft within UK airspace and seek to amend EASA legislation to support this. We will certainly be pushing for these privileges to continue beyond 2018.

Cookie

[Keef]

I agree absolutely with you folks, but isn't it sad that so much effort has to be expended to have simple common sense apply. I don't even know who to blame for the mess. All power to your elbows!

I've spent a chunk of the last four years trying to get certain "statutory bodies" to agree that we can remove some concrete and stone that was planted in the church, illegally, by some nutty Victorians. It's ugly, and in the way. But it's "unique" - yes, it's that - so they want it preserved. They also seem to have an absolute veto and no apparent accountability. We'll get there in the end.

[hegemon88]

I had an airline pilot contact me a while ago who had temporarily lost his Class One medical, and wanted to fly light aircraft until his Class One was re-instated and he could return to work. He could obtain a LAPL medical, and was considering re-grading his ATPL(A) to a LAPL(A) until returning to Class One medical fitness.

Ha! As I understand it, an ATPL(A) holder does not have to re-grade to LAPL(A) i.e. surrender his AT licence. LAPL privileges are embedded in ATPL by Part-FCL.505(a)(1). There is no equivalent clause in Part-FCL.205.A (which is b*nkers and NPA 2014-29 may fix it but in 2017 at the earliest), hence the need to re-grade PPL(A).



/h88

[Cookie]

h88, unfortunately that's not the case.

Whilst a ATPL does indeed allow the holder to exercise the privileges of a LAPL holder in accordance with FCL.505 (the privileges of a LAPL holder are listed at FCL.105 and FCL.105.A), the ATPL licence itself can only be validated with a Class One medical in accordance with MED.A.030 - see CAP 804, Section 4, Part N, page 4/5.

The UK CAA have also included a PPL and CPL licence for all ATPL holders (see Section II of your ATPL licence or example in CAP 804, Section 1, Part C, Appendix 2, page 56). Therefore the PPL licence (within the same bit of paper as the ATPL) can be validated with a Class Two medical in accordance with MED.A.030. However, an ATPL holder cannot validate their licence, or the CPL or PPL within it, with a LAPL medical.

There is no equivalent clause in Part-FCL.205.A (which is b*nkers and NPA 2014-29 may fix it but in 2017 at the earliest)

One of the comments I submitted as our response to NPA 2014-29 was that the same issue has been repeated - even by incuding LAPL privileges for a PPL holder within FCL.205.A, that PPL can still only be validated with a Class One or Two medical in accordance with MED.A.030.

As I understand it, an ATPL(A) holder does not have to re-grade to LAPL(A)

If you hold a LAPL medical, then you cannot exercise the privileges of your EASA ATPL, CPL, or PPL. You can either re-grade to a LAPL or obtain a NPPL, both of which may be validated with a LAPL medical. I've compiled a handy summary of the requirements in Coaching Scheme Leaflet 3.12 which can be downloaded from here:

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co. ... sition.pdf

Cookie

[Irv Lee]

I can't imagine how they could have made the paperwork more confusing. Firstly a class 2 medical certificate that many G A PPLs will assume allows them to drop to LAPL levels automatically, and now a licence (ATPL) that thinks it is a lapl but isn't.
I can't imagine this interpretation of the latter was ever imagined by the people taking part in the consultation for FCL and hard to believe the ones writing it meant that.
So all I can think of now as to what it all means is that an ATPL with a class one medical can fly sep without a valid Sep rating, for example if they once had an Sep rating to do the hours then let it expire. This end result cannot have been in anyone's mind when forming it all, the simple explanation is the only believable one, if a class one medical is needed , that is an unintended consequence and should be corrected.

[kanga]

.. an ATPL with a class one medical can fly sep without a valid Sep rating, for example if they once had an Sep rating to do the hours then let it expire....

a former Air Cadet instructor colleague is ex-RAF, did his 'primary' wholly on JPs (in the brief period when this was tried), became QFI and QWI on Tornado and Hawk. He now flies BA long-haul, having done his CPL/ME/IR on Senecas ..

He has just started as an AEF Tutor pilot, presumably checked out by the OC AEF. AFAIK, he has never flown P1 in any SEP before. The Tutors are, of course, civ-registered (and 'complex', with CS prop) .. I wonder whether a SEP Rating (or 'differences training' ?) has been added to his ATPL .. Does the CAA regard an OC AEF/UAS as a 'FE(SEP)' ?