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Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:06 pm
by TrickyWoo
Hi,
Could someone please advise if I can hire a club aircraft and fly solo with hours counting towards taking others up (10 hour rule) and my PPL after the LAPL test but before I have the physical document? I believe the CFI can 'sign me out' but there's conversation over whether the hours must be under supervision so whether they will count as above and not as 'wasted' hours fromt pov of further privileges (not wasted in flying terms of course!)
Thank you.
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:03 pm
by Paul_Sengupta
No, the 10 hours have to be post licence issue, so once you have the licence in your hand.
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:37 pm
by TrickyWoo
Thank you. So I can fly under supervision and they'll go towards PPL but not taking others. Log will show PUS?
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:41 pm
by Paul_Sengupta
As I understand it, if you're flying solo under the supervision of your instructor, you log P1.
At least I did on my training but then that was 25 years ago...
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:07 pm
by riverrock
TrickyWoo wrote:Thank you. So I can fly under supervision and they'll go towards PPL but not taking others. Log will show PUS?
PUS (Pilot under supervision) only applies when you are actually taking a test (and pass it), or you are in a multi-pilot aircraft (and acting as P1 with an instructor).
You would log as "P1".
However you do need authorisation from an instructor. Irv or Cookie will be along in a moment to say how I got that wrong!
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:09 am
by TrickyWoo
Just in case anyone is interested...'
the CAA confirms that a student pilot may be permitted to operate an aircraft as the sole occupant, provided the flight is authorised and supervised by the holder of a valid Flight Instructor Certificate...'https://www.caa.co.uk/Flights-after-com ... -test.aspx'Such flights should be for the benefit of the student pilot, to keep their skills at an appropriate level for the safe operation of the aircraft and enforce the training they have received'Doesn't say about 10 hour solo restriction being lifted after 10 hours or counting towards PPL but that may be a niche issue given most LAPLs won't look to convert to PPL immediately. I
think a solo flight is just that - PIC / P1 (which appear synonymous) ergo with CFI permission I'll certainly want to treat the 10 hours as counting towards taking my OH up.
(I started on a LAPL in July then realised I should have done a PPL but it isn't possible to change once started)
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:28 am
by JAFO
FCL.105.A LAPL(A) — Privileges and conditions
(a) The privileges of the holder of an LAPL for aeroplanes are to act as PIC on single-engine piston
aeroplanes-land or TMG with a maximum certificated take-off mass of 2 000 kg or less, carrying a
maximum of 3 passengers, such that there are never more than 4 persons on board of the aircraft.
(b) Holders of a LAPL(A) shall only carry passengers once they have completed 10 hours of flight time
as PIC on aeroplanes or TMG after the issuance of the licence
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:03 am
by TrickyWoo
Perfect - thank you.
Therefore:
- it is 100% ok to fly post-test and pre-issue with FI sign-off (per CAA link)
- Hours will count 100% towards PPL 'conversion'
- Hours will definitely NOT count towards taking others
CAA says issue takes 10 days but...well I'll see I spose
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:21 am
by Paul_Sengupta
TrickyWoo wrote:CAA says issue takes 10 days but...well I'll see I spose
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:50 pm
by low&slow
TrickyWoo wrote:- Hours will count 100% towards PPL 'conversion . . .
No. The required 15 hours must also be post licence issue. Seems bloody silly really, a man from the CAA once said to me "hours are hours", but that's the way the rules are written.
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:00 pm
by JAFO
Not that I doubt you in any way @low&slow but do you have a reference for that?
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:28 pm
by low&slow
That one's from FCL.210.A (b) Experience requirements and crediting for a PPL(A):
Specific requirements for applicants holding an LAPL(A). Applicants for a PPL(A) holding an LAPL(A) shall have completed at least 15 hours of flight time on aeroplanes after the issue of the LAPL(A) . . .
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:44 pm
by TrickyWoo
Ah. And indeed, oh.
I guess I'll wait for the license so the hours can do double-duty. Triple duty really with the actual experience! Very much done on honour isn't it? I wonder how many experienced PPLs are fully au fait with the rules. Perhaps the 'anomalies' become fewer once the paper is in one's grubby hands and running towards a PA28 'I can flyyyyyy'
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:58 pm
by JAFO
It's a licence @TrickyWoo.
Re: Post-test, pre-licence issue
PostPosted:Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:26 pm
by Boxkite
TrickyWoo wrote:CAA says issue takes 10 days but...well I'll see I spose
A friend is still waiting for his LAPL to be sent after applying 6 weeks ago.