[aerobat150]

Hi all

I wonder if anybody on this forum can answer my dilemma.

I have a Valid standalone FAA licence and a valid UK Part FCL licence and I wish to fly a German D-Reg aircraft from Germany to the UK.
Can this be done legally

Thanks in advance
A

[Flyin'Dutch']

I don't think so until you get to the UK FIR.

Not sure whether the LBA allows people with an FAA licence to fly D reg aeroplanes in Germany, and even if they did you might have to circumnavigate the NL/B/Fr as I am pretty sure that none of those allow you to fly in their airspace with an FAA certificate in a non-FAA registered aeroplane.

But more knowledgeable folk will be along shortly.

I think you need someone with an EASA licence to do the job.

[Irv Lee]

I think you need someone with an EASA licence to do the job.

But not a lapl.

How do ferry pilots ferry (generally) in these sort of cases of mixed licence/reg? One off ferry exemption?

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi Irv

German LAPL is I think valid in the UK?

Until 31/12/2022 EASA licence considered to be UK licence, innit?

[Irv Lee]

@frank but isn't that recognition for non UK LAPL purely for flying G reg in the UK? I'm sure there was some discussion that (for example) a Danish LAPL(A) would have to route around UK airspace to fly to (say) Eire in a Danish registered aircraft. Obviously I would normally ask me, but my mind is completely shot after a 4 times cancelled, 5th time lucky, FE retest a few days ago. (Don't really mind the test, but revising and re-revising each time it is postponed is not good)

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi Irv

I did not think that the EASA LAPL = UK LAPL until 31/12/2022 was further qualified as to what reg you can then fly in the UK.

Will have a look

[Flyin'Dutch']

I think the non-answer is buried in here but I cannot see it.

It is not forbidden explicitly - is it therefore allowed?

https://info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/private-pilots/

[Irv Lee]

@Flyin'Dutch' well I think (obviously without trawling through) that CAA pages concentrate on what happens to G reg and, apart from recognising that all easa licences are cross validated in all easa states, I suspect that anything else follows ICAO style "thinking". When I get my brain back I will have a probe around, but I suspect that a non uk lapl might be just a non icao licence except when flying G reg in the UK for a couple of years

[Flyin'Dutch']

You may very well be right although I would not be surprised if the CAA would allow non-UK-LAPL holders to fly jalopies registered in another non-UK-but EASA country to fly around UK airspace, but I have no way to substantiate that at the moment.

[Edward Bellamy]

Some sort of German validation of the licence (the UK one might be easier, but could be either I guess) would be necessary to fly the D-reg. Options might include:

- 28 day validation for non-commercial purposes
- Annual validation
- Convert to German (or indeed any EASA) issued Part-FCL licence

Doing the FAA one might allow use of the FAA/EASA Bilateral, but not sure it buys you much over the standard 3rd country conversion process. AFAIK EASA states have not done a general validation for UK Part-FCL licences as the UK has done until December 2022 the other way around.

AOPA Germany have an article which looks to be current/accurate on getting a German validation.

Edit to add: there is technically still derogation in the EASA Aircrew Regulation for third country licences to be used in the EU until June 2022. This is at Member State discretion though and can come with all sorts of T&Cs. I have lost track of which member states still use it, no idea re Germany, AOPA Germany might know.

[Cookie]

I have lost track of which member states still use it

https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-lib ... egulations

Click on "Derogations from Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 as amended" (XLS file )

Cookie

[Irv Lee]

Still find it hard to believe one-off ferry pilots do all this but perhaps they do....
On the lapl front, I still haven't found anything to say an easa non-uk lapl can fly in uk fir in non G reg, but I have found something indicating an easa non-UK lapl cannot fly G reg outside the UK

[Edward Bellamy]

Thanks @Cookie, to be fair the list indicates Germany still enables the derogation until June 2022 as per the Article 12 deadline, so that might allow it?

[nickwilcock]

With regard to those MS which have adopted the Art 12(4) opt-out, I asked EASA to confirm whether the derogation applied to to aircraft of those MS in the airspace of any EASA MS, or was restricted to airspace of the State of Registration.....

They weren't sure.

I asked whether a more general derogation could be made available up until 31 Dec 2022, to allow more time for UK-EU negotiation, but was told that no further extension would be agreed. Art 12(4) opt-out extension to 30 Jun 2022 had only been agreed to allow for the EU-US BASA to be put in place rather than to ease the plight of UK licence holders in EU MS wishing to continue to fly aircraft of that MS. All were very sympathetic to the plight of UK pilots following the UK's exit from EASA, but it will be up to the UK government to make any move on mutual licensing recognition. So far there's no sign of that happening.

[Paul_Sengupta]

I asked EASA ...They weren't sure.

I'm glad it's not just our CAA!

All were very sympathetic to the plight of UK pilots following the UK's exit from EASA, but it will be up to the UK government to make any move on mutual licensing recognition. So far there's no sign of that happening.

Hang on, don't the UK already allow EASA LAPL holders to fly to the UK (among other things)?