Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By Jonnerslr
#1760905
Not sure if anyone can help....

My situation... Currently learning to fly for an NPPL (SSEA). I can only get a medical 'self declared' to fly a non-easa aircraft which obviously limits me G- reg vintage/home built etc

However, I've come across this today on the NPPL website....

Question - Can I fly my 'N' registered aircraft on my NPPL?
Answer - Yes. The FAA have confirmed 14 CFR 61.3 permits the holder of a UK-issued sub-ICAO licence, such as the NPPL or LAPL, to operate a US (N) registered aircraft within the UK.'[/i]

So my question.... Could I fly an American registered AC114 in the UK (If I bought a share in one)?

Apologies if this is viewed as a stupid question but if I can then it would make my flying life be a lot simpler!

Thanks
Jon
By Edward Bellamy
#1761013
Is the N reg aircraft you are wanting to fly an EASA aircraft when registered in Europe?

If you are resident in the EU it doesn’t matter whether the aircraft is registered inside or outside of an EU Member State, if it’s an EASA type the EASA licensing and ops and rules apply.
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By nickwilcock
#1761017
In UK and Europe, the Rockwell Commander 114 is an EASA aeroplane, irrespective of its state of registration.

A NPPL may not be used to fly EASA aircraft.

A Pilot Medical Declaration may not be used to fly N-reg aircraft.
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By GrahamB
#1761036
It may be the case, of course, that after 31/12 this year the above restrictions may no longer apply.
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By GrahamB
#1761041
nickwilcock wrote:
GrahamB wrote:It may be the case, of course, that after 31/12 this year the above restrictions may no longer apply.


Rather a gamble if you're considering buying a share in a foreign-registered Rockwell 114.

Absolutely right, but as the OP is still training for the NPPL, I didn't think it would need spelling out that buying such an aircraft now would be somewhat over-eager.
By Jonnerslr
#1761047
All
Thanks for your help.

I must admit, I did think that may have been the case but just wanted to double check incase I had found a loop hole!

All the best
Jon
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By Kemble Pitts
#1761160
So, the pilot has a UK (non-EASA) pilot's licence and he wants to fly an American registered aircraft in UK airspace. What has that got to do with EASA? Nothing I suggest, even if we remain in EASA.

It is not an EASA-aircraft as nobody can say if that particular aeroplane is in comformance with an EASA Type Certificate: it might be covered in all sorts of 'orrible US mods.

If the FAA (as the organisation responsible for the aircraft) says that his licence and medical combination is good enough, and the CAA (as the organisation responsible for non-EASA flying in the UK) says its OK...

Unless somebody can point to a regulation that says it can't happen.
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By Kemble Pitts
#1761162
Here's what the Cousins say about it:

§61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person:

(1) Has in the person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization—

(i) A pilot certificate issued under this part and in accordance with §61.19;

(ii) A special purpose pilot authorization issued under §61.77;

(iii) A temporary certificate issued under §61.17;

(iv) A document conveying temporary authority to exercise certificate privileges issued by the Airmen Certification Branch under §61.29(e);

(v) When engaged in a flight operation within the United States for a part 119 certificate holder authorized to conduct operations under part 121 or 135 of this chapter, a temporary document provided by that certificate holder under an approved certificate verification plan;

(vi) When engaged in a flight operation within the United States for a fractional ownership program manager authorized to conduct operations under part 91, subpart K, of this chapter, a temporary document provided by that program manager under an approved certificate verification plan; or

(vii) When operating an aircraft within a foreign country, a pilot license issued by that country may be used.

(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:

(i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;

(ii) Government identification card issued by the Federal government, a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States;

(iii) U.S. Armed Forces' identification card;

(iv) Official passport;

(v) Credential that authorizes unescorted access to a security identification display area at an airport regulated under 49 CFR part 1542; or

(vi) Other form of identification that the Administrator finds acceptable.

(b) Required pilot certificate for operating a foreign-registered aircraft within the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of foreign registry within the United States, unless—

(1) That person's pilot certificate or document issued under §61.29(e) is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate; and

(2) Has been issued in accordance with this part, or has been issued or validated by the country in which the aircraft is registered.

(c) Medical certificate. (1) A person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft only if that person holds the appropriate medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the FAA, that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft. Paragraph (c)(2) of this section provides certain exceptions to the requirement to hold a medical certificate.

(2) A person is not required to meet the requirements of paragraph (c)(1) of this section if that person—

(i) Is exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking a pilot certificate with a glider category rating, a balloon class rating, or glider or balloon privileges;

(ii) Is exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking a sport pilot certificate with other than glider or balloon privileges and holds a U.S. driver's license;

(iii) Is exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking a pilot certificate with a weight-shift-control aircraft category rating or a powered parachute category rating and holds a U.S. driver's license;

(iv) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with glider or balloon privileges;

(v) Is exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with other than glider or balloon privileges and holds a U.S. driver's license. A person who has applied for or held a medical certificate may exercise the privileges of a sport pilot certificate using a U.S. driver's license only if that person—

(A) Has been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application; and

(B) Has not had his or her most recently issued medical certificate suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn.

(vi) Is holding a pilot certificate with a balloon class rating and is piloting or providing training in a balloon as appropriate;

(vii) Is holding a pilot certificate or a flight instructor certificate with a glider category rating, and is piloting or providing training in a glider, as appropriate;

(viii) Is exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate, provided the person is not acting as pilot in command or as a required pilot flight crewmember;

(ix) Is exercising the privileges of a ground instructor certificate;

(x) Is operating an aircraft within a foreign country using a pilot license issued by that country and possesses evidence of current medical qualification for that license;

(xi) Is operating an aircraft with a U.S. pilot certificate, issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license, issued under §61.75, and holds a medical certificate issued by the foreign country that issued the foreign pilot license, which is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that airman certificate;

(xii) Is a pilot of the U.S. Armed Forces, has an up-to-date U.S. military medical examination, and holds military pilot flight status;

(xiii) Is exercising the privileges of a student, recreational or private pilot certificate for operations conducted under the conditions and limitations set forth in §61.113(i) and holds a U.S. driver's license; or

(xiv) Is exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and acting as pilot in command for operations conducted under the conditions and limitations set forth in §61.113(i) and holds a U.S. driver's license.
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By JAFO
#1761182
So, @Kemble Pitts - that seems to say that if I had an NPPL (SSEA) which is "a pilot license issued by that country" and a PMD, which is "evidence of current medical qualification for that license", the FAA are happy for me to fly an N reg airplane?
By PaulB
#1761183
JAFO wrote:So, @Kemble Pitts - that seems to say that if I had an NPPL (SSEA) which is "a pilot license issued by that country" and a PMD, which is "evidence of current medical qualification for that license", the FAA are happy for me to fly an N reg airplane?


It does, but surely a state has the final say over what combination of licence / airframe is allowed to fly in their airspace.

Now where's that ref that KP asked for?
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By Kemble Pitts
#1761213
JAFO, clearly the FAA are happy with it from their end.

Now you need to find what the CAA thinks about it, if anything. It can be very easy to shout 'NO, IT IS FORBIDDEN...' but my angle is always to try to find the rules allowing something rather than banning it. Unless it is explicitely not allowed.
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By JAFO
#1761216
Kemble Pitts wrote: Unless it is explicitely not allowed.


And it is generally easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. :twisted: Not that I'm suggesting that anyone should do anything outwith the regulations, just that I haven't yet seen anything in regulation that disallows it.

There's the challenge, folks: you have until lockdown is lifted to find something that explicitly tells me I can't :D
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By Jonnerslr
#1761220
Wow guys,

I had actually been looking for the US reference as quoted in the initial question so thanks for finding and posting that

I'll contact the CAA.

Thanks for your continued help

Regards
Jon
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By Kemble Pitts
#1761224
Jonnerslr wrote:Wow guys,

I had actually been looking for the US reference as quoted in the initial question so thanks for finding and posting that

I'll contact the CAA.

Thanks for your continued help

Regards
Jon


I would caution about asking the CAA. If they don't really know, then they will say 'no, no can do' as that is the easiest answer. Even if that is the incorrect answer, you then have the problem that the Regulator has told you not to do it.

Trawl the regulations and find exactly what the rules say, then you'll know.
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