Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By whatsausername
#1750338
What is likely to happen to UK-issued LAPLs if the UK leaves EASA? Presumably the CAA will no longer be allowed to administer them, so what would be done to preserve the priviledges for their holders, particularly the priviledge to fly abroad?
By johnm
#1750373
whatsausername wrote:What is likely to happen to UK-issued LAPLs if the UK leaves EASA? Presumably the CAA will no longer be allowed to administer them, so what would be done to preserve the priviledges for their holders, particularly the priviledge to fly abroad?


AIUI if we are not in EASA then a LAPL effectively becomes an NPPL and is not ICAO compliant and therefore restricts its holder to the UK.

The only solution is to acquire an ICAO compliant UK PPL which is what UK issued EASA PPLs will become.

The only reason for leaving EASA is the refusal to recognise any role for the ECJ, which is a bit bonkers since we recognise loads of other transnational bodies for all sorts of reasons, not least WTO and ICAO, and there are a number of EASA members who are not EU states.
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By nallen
#1750431
johnm wrote:
whatsausername wrote:What is likely to happen to UK-issued LAPLs if the UK leaves EASA? Presumably the CAA will no longer be allowed to administer them, so what would be done to preserve the priviledges for their holders, particularly the priviledge to fly abroad?


AIUI if we are not in EASA then a LAPL effectively becomes an NPPL and is not ICAO compliant and therefore restricts its holder to the UK.

The only solution is to acquire an ICAO compliant UK PPL which is what UK issued EASA PPLs will become.


It's not the only solution for flying abroad (taking this to mean Europe as the question was about LAPLs). Another solution is to change your SOLI (state of licence issue) for the LAPL, as being discussed on the main forum. This could be an option if you can't get a Class II medical but can get a LAPL medical, and is something I will be exploring as I would like to fly around Europe in my retirement and I don't have a Class II.
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By johnm
#1750457
flybymike wrote:Perhaps, in a fit of pique, the CAA will refuse to recognise any such non ICAO compliant licence issued by a foreign state for use in the U.K..... :wink:

So NPPL from U.K. and LAPL from Ireland sounds like a plan :-)
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By ak7274
#1750609
As a LAPL is non ICAO compliant and an NPPL is non ICAO compliant, both of which require almost identical training, perhaps both parties could recognise each others licence.
Or not recognise each others licence, but surely we can't have one allowing it and not the other.
I believe the take up of LAPL in Europe is much greater than the UK, so the adverse effect of non recognition will be felt by both sides, if no agreement is made.
By johnm
#1750752
ak7274 wrote:As a LAPL is non ICAO compliant and an NPPL is non ICAO compliant, both of which require almost identical training, perhaps both parties could recognise each others licence.
Or not recognise each others licence, but surely we can't have one allowing it and not the other.
I believe the take up of LAPL in Europe is much greater than the UK, so the adverse effect of non recognition will be felt by both sides, if no agreement is made.


LAPL holders on the other side of the channel will have roughly 30 countries to fly around so won’t miss the U.K. greatly I suppose. U.K. holders on the other hand.......
By ak7274
#1750762
And Belgium is fun? Italy great? Austria fantastic?
That wasn't the question.
Surely mutually agreed standards as opposed to " We can do it, but you can't"
As the LAPL has a huge take up in EASA and not in the UK, your 30 country, never mind 27 voting countries still like to visit the UK for more reasons than just somewhere to knock off the list for a Bacon Butty.
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By TLRippon
#1751221
The number of LAPL holders visiting the UK from other EASA states is far smaller than the opposite. In fact that goes for all non commercial licence categories.

This is coming from an instructor who is restricted to LAPL business, so we will also be out of a job and before anyone says it, no the CAA won’t be able to let us teach PPL as the CPL TK is an ICAO requirement.
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1751256
TLRippon wrote:This is coming from an instructor who is restricted to LAPL business, so we will also be out of a job and before anyone says it, no the CAA won’t be able to let us teach PPL as the CPL TK is an ICAO requirement.


Can still teach the NPPL though?
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By Irv Lee
#1751260
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
TLRippon wrote:This is coming from an instructor who is restricted to LAPL business, so we will also be out of a job and before anyone says it, no the CAA won’t be able to let us teach PPL as the CPL TK is an ICAO requirement.


Can still teach the NPPL though?

It's difficult legally to teach pure SSEA from scratch in EASA aircraft due to the student solo requirement, you can go through microlight as the eventual conversion is dual. However, it does raise a question of what happens fromr April 8th for even that route if everything ends there for 8 months for pilots with PMDs in EASA aircraft as they probably couldn't do the test.
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By TLRippon
#1751270
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
TLRippon wrote:This is coming from an instructor who is restricted to LAPL business, so we will also be out of a job and before anyone says it, no the CAA won’t be able to let us teach PPL as the CPL TK is an ICAO requirement.


Can still teach the NPPL though?


Nope, not in the aircraft we have at our club, all EASA and on a personal level, despite what the myopic may think, many LAPL holders want to fly in Europe not just in the UK. We are running a novice pilot and student flyout to Lille next month which will be oversubscribed, mainly with LAPL holders.

My main concern is for new students coming through now. Where do they stand? Those with licences already can start the upgrade path to PPL.

We have 4 LAPL restricted instructors at our club and produce a disproportionately high number of new LAPL holders each year, the revenue of our club will suffer if we leave EASA.

Over the last three years the number of new licence holders per annum has almost tripled where I work, due to the management and CFI embracing the LAPL as a positive supplement to the PPL student base, rather than a second class rating we hear trotted out from some on this forum. Instructor and aircraft utilisation are up and the number of club members is up.
I would be sceptical of a regime where a licence equivalent to the LAPL was not available, same price, same training requirements and it was suggested that we would achieve the same growth with NPPL and PPL only.
Last edited by TLRippon on Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By JAFO
#1751275
When I got my NPPL in 2004 the options were NPPL or PPL. NPPLs could be used to fly overseas with the agreement of their NAAs and some places had blanket permissions.

So, if we leave EASA, there will be no EASA aircraft so what's the difference?

I grant you it would be uncertain what might happen from 8th April until we had left EASA but, beyond that, what's the problem from your point of view as a flying instructor at a flying club?

Genuinely interested to know, not trying to downplay the uncertainty or pick a fight over why we should or shouldn't leave; just trying to understand how we might be any worse off than we were in 2004 or significantly worse off than we are now?
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