Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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#1675505
After training we (ato) completed the paperwork for the issue of of an EASA PPL. 1104/1199/1157/1107 ,plus all ID and old licence docs carefully completed and countersigned. We also submitted a Swiss EU Class 2 medical and sent it to the CAA. By next day return, back came a rejection, based on the EASA Class 2 Swiss medical isn’t recognised by the CAA med “system”.
Two quotes from the CAA website re. Medical and EASA licence conversion.
Medical requirements for private pilots.
To fly EASA aircraft (eg GA) on a Part FCL PPL ,you will need an internationally recognised Class 2 medical from an AME.
Conversion.
You will need a current EASA medical.
Has anyone had this problem and is there a quote to say that a UK med is required to convert a UK PPL to an EASA PPL. The candidate gained a UK PPL before JAR and is now living in Switzerland hence the query.
#1675537
As far as I am aware, the medical needs to be held in the same state as the licence. There are exceptions but the CAA have to agree to it, IIRC. This is a retrograde step to what came before with the JAA where you could have a medical from any member state and a licence in another. I don't know why EASA, the champions of EU harmonisation, failed to carry this on.
#1675552
If Irv's suggestion works, then, from what I read, the time to issue a licence is so long anyway the pilot might as well apply for a SOLI (State of Licence issue) to the UK at the same time.

Presumably the UK CAA consider Switzerland his current state of licence issue if that was the state that issued his first EASA ( or JAR deemed to be EASA) medical.

Given the uncertainty about aviation post Brexit, I wonder why someone living in Switzerland has opted for a UK issued EASA licence anyway.
#1675569
I doubt you can get an initial licence issued by any authority with a PMD.

The State of Licence Issue will be determined by the medical done.

If the first medical was done as a Swiss one then the SOLI is Switzerland; if the first one was a UK one then the SOLI is the UK and the AME who did a subsequent medical should have issued a UK Medical with the UK Reference Number.

To do a change of SOLI you have to make an application and bring a lot of patience as the medical department is currently very busy with these, thanks to Brexit.

As this Pilot now lives in Switzerland it may be expedient to see if the Swiss will issue a Swiss EASA licence based on training record and flight test.

That would have the advantage of being and remaining an EASA licence and have less potential to become a chocolate teapot after 29/3.
#1675588
Dodo, the original licence and nationality of the pilot was British.
Irv, in their EASA notes the CAA seem to indicate that a PMD can’t be used for initial licence issue. As for Using a Swiss application and training for a Swiss licence issue, they required the PPL course to be repeated in full! Their guidance may have been from the same Part FCL docs, AMC/GG used as a reference in the latest Training Comm, re which items are “M” ,mandatory for tests/checks. Buried in there I noticed that training after a three year lapse should cover all items of the original course, maybe we’re not the only ones to gold plate!
As above, if anyone has a definitive reference to this ,pls let me know, otherwise it’s probably going to be a UK medical and I guess a change of CAA ref no.
#1675731
@pembroke @Flyin'Dutch' I was reading the exemption where the double negative of what is excluded (excluded from the exclusion) suggested a declaration might be accepted for a paperwork style conversion, but not for an initial issue after a course
#1675768
Sorry if I am a bit confused... wasn't the training mentioned in the original post to get his old caa ppl a renewed sep? (If not, what was it?) If so, exemption ors4 1283 does infer that he can get an easa ppl from it with just a medical declaration ... worth a call with 1283 in front of you.
#1675786
@pembroke

The issue seems to be that the AME did issue him (incorrectly) with a Swiss medical - he can either contact the AME and get him to change the medical from a Swiss to a UK one - The AME needs to submit the EASA Paperwork to the Swiss.

If that is not possible he can go to any other EASA AME and get an EASA medical issued. It would be prudent to send a letter to the UK CAA and the Swiss, copy to the Swiss AME to set out what the issue was so as not to get into trouble himself.

This is not an uncommon problem as there are of course plenty AMEs who only do medicals for 'their' Authority.

If it is a renewal of something previous then @Irv Lee may well be right and that only a PMD is required - but we may be in for the FCL people dealing with the file be in the 'there be dragons' territory which means they don't know the regs as well as Irv does and lead to further delays and upset.

After all they queried my SLMG rating when I applied for an EASA ticket and only relented when I sent them a photocopy of the relevant page in my logbook which was signed off 20+ years before and despite me having the SLMG rating in my CAA issued licence - don't ask.
#1675797
At present an old UK licence can be converted to a UK EASA licence using a PMD, you just cannot get an initial issue EASA Licence (no previous licence) with a PMD or use it for initial solo flying.
If the EASA medical is Swiss (using a Swiss reference) then that is where the medical records are held and de facto is the SOLI and you will need to apply to change SOLI before the UK can issue an EASA licence.
#1675832
Irv, to clarify. Plan A was to carry out training reqd.,and apply for change from the original uk ppl to achieve a easa ppl, all in the same application. (see the forms sent in the first post).
Flying dutch, I think the best plan will be for the pilot to come over and go to a uk Ame for a Class 2 medical. I am not sure the Swiss Ame can issue a medical, using the uk caa data system. I will talk it through with fcl, hopefully tomorrow. Many thanks for above advice, I will be back with progress, “pembroke” (JT)