Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By muffin
#1664863
We fly a group owned Eurostar EV97A which was built from kit as a Group A aircraft. A new member wishes to join the group who has an NPPL(M) and has around 700 hours on an EV97 which is a microlight and the only difference to the A version is that it does not have an aux electric fuel pump.. What does he need to do to switch to an LAPL(A) in order to fly our EV97A?

Does he really have to do the whole LAPL course again?
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By Irv Lee
#1664867
Just need as specified in 2.1.2 here and should never need a lapl* for that aircraft just the ssea added into the nppl:
http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence ... V%2011.pdf
And maybe a radio licence.... many nppl-m don't bother

*unless leaving uk, and assuming uk stays in easa... If it doesn't then a uk lapl won't be any good outside uk either.
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By muffin
#1664931
Thanks Irv. I had a reply from Cookie as well which confirmed the situation. He only wants UK at the moment so the LAPL is a useful extension depending on the dreaded B word!
All this just for the addition of an electric fuel pump.............he actually has more hours on “type” than all the current group members put together.
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By Irv Lee
#1664990
Well I do not know if it is still possible (if it is, i would assume only for non-easa aircraft) but fading memory of it involved proving to somewhere (LAA?) that you had an nppl-ssea and an icao medical and getting a certificate from "them".
If we end up with a non easa Brexit, UK lapls won't be usable outside the UK. So we will have given up a voluntary "European-plus" licence cross-recognition system (JAR) that worked at both private and commercial level, AND national uk licences allowed to fly to France (which I contend is where most UK based pilots want to visit abroad, if at all), for nothing, less in fact, at huge cost in money and person-hours. Just think how that nppl ssea process could have developed over the past 12 years if we hadn't lost momentum and put a millionth of the effort spent on easa to expand ssea agreements abroad instead
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By EchoGolf
#1713819
Rather than start a new thread, this one is also the topic I am interested in. What a nightmare pilots licensing is and there is so much misinformation going about I have been doing my own reading through the various CAA and LAA documents.

I'm presently making good progress through my NPPL(M) and understand that having finished that, a little bit of extra training (hopefully) will also get me an NPPL(SSEA) rating. My objective is to be able to fly EASA aircraft throughout Europe. I then need an LAPL(A). I am also aware that the ability to convert that NPPL(SSEA) license to an LAPL(A) only applies to NPPL(SSEA) licenses issued before 8th April 2018, which mine obviously will not be. However I then read FCL.110 LAPL which says applicants who hold "another license in the same category of aircraft shall be fully credited towards the requirements of the LAPL in that category of aircraft".

Is it the case then that an LAPL instructor who I approach for training can credit me with all of the hours necessary to achieve the NPPL(SSEA) being 32 total, (10 solo and 22 dual), towards an LAPL(A)? :thumleft:
By tailbob
#1713850
My understanding is that FCL 110 LAPL applies to those who have held another Part FCL licence in the same category of aircraft.
Thus if you wish to downgrade from PPL to LAPL there is full credit for your previous training.
By EchoGolf
#1713894
tailbob wrote:My understanding is that FCL 110 LAPL applies to those who have held another Part FCL licence in the same category of aircraft.
Thus if you wish to downgrade from PPL to LAPL there is full credit for your previous training.


Unfortunately for EASA, this isn't what they have written and the NPPL(SSEA) is also a license for the same category of aircraft (at least for now).

The wording of FCL.110 LAPL is a credit for a licence towards another licence issued for a common aircraft category, not hours flown on the same aircraft category. That credit has nothing to do with the hours flown on the aircraft category to which the licenses relate. In fact I would say it matters not how you got the licence and what aircraft you flew and for how long, only that the CAA awarded it to you and that it entitles you to fly the same aircraft category.

My suggestion is that you get "fully credited" by your ATI for your NPPL(SSEA) when you approach him to complete your LAPL(A). You just complete what is then missing from the requirements of the LAPL(A) vs the NPPL(SSEA) and submit your LAPL(A) application using the license credit entitlement.
By agfoxx
#1717186
For everybody who flies an EASA aircraft on an NPPL SSEA and missed the LAPL conversion window - like I did.
I asked both the CAA and the LAA today about what the future would be - whether we'd still be allowed to operate EASA aircraft after April 2020 (the current cut-off point).
Both organisations told me that people like me would not be grounded.
The CAA said that we'll either make a deal with EASA, or, if we do achieve a Brexit, "you'll be flying a UK-registered aircraft on a UK-issued licence, really simple".
The LAA said that they expected the current derogation to be extended again, like it was the year before and the year before that.
What nobody seems to know is:
- What the process of going from an NPPL to a PPL will look like after 2020
- What privileges NPPL holders will have outside the UK (i.e., whether we'll still be allowed to fly in France, for example).
More detail on the next episode of The Two Thousand Feet podcast.
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By ak7274
#1717763
The girls on the CAA stand said EASA part fca.110.a applies to NPPL SSEA / LAPL A. Allowing hours to count, therefore requiring just a GST.
Am I sure this is correct?
No,but ever hopeful