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Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:49 pm
by Irv Lee
Groan

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:05 pm
by Dave W
Direct link is here.

Is there any fundamental difference from previous issue, @Irv Lee?

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:26 pm
by Irv Lee
Double the pages (maybe 4x). The good thing about 1157 was it was designed as a one pager for reval by experience as an alternative to 1119-something which was 2 pages. And for prof checks it was only 2 pages. Now it is 2 or 4 page instead of 1 or 2. And as I discovered yesterday, if the guy needs an English 6 as part of test it is now 8 pages not 2, as the little tick box has gone and separate form needed.

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:50 pm
by Irv Lee
Main problem are caused by relatively big sized new section (3) inserted just for i/r candidates to say they had PBN included in their test - sounds like a tick box event to me. Not sure why the test schedule went to an extra page too.

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:01 pm
by Bathman
Groan

I'm surprised they didn't have a intentionally blank page.

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:34 pm
by mikehallam
Is this the two yearly (24 months) 12 hour P1 , including one hour review with instructor thingy ?

And, BTW, can this - or that - be done anytime during the second 12 months ?
My two years is up at an awkward time of the Winter for my a/c & strip operation: I don't want to get dunned.

mike hallam

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:02 pm
by Irv Lee
mikehallam wrote:Is this the two yearly (24 months) 12 hour P1 , including one hour review with instructor thingy ?

Well it is a multi purpose form, for reporting a few things, including the 12 hour revalidation by experience route, and the design was deliberate that, unlike 1119, it was all on one side, so easier/cheaper to copy, scan, photo, store, mail, etc.
And, BTW, can this - or that - be done anytime during the second 12 months ?
My two years is up at an awkward time of the Winter for my a/c & strip operation: I don't want to get dunned.
mike hallam

Yes, any time before expiry once the 2nd year flying requirement is completed...
(but you can have fewer p1 hours than you mention ... whilst usually it is 11 p1 & 1 pu/t, up to 6 of 12 can be pu/t leaving remainder p1 (and don't forget the to&l))

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:13 pm
by Bathman
Actually things like this really annoying me. It's the same with the LAPL skills test form running to to two pages of A4.

I think it shows how disengaged from the person on the shop floor.

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:36 pm
by Irv Lee
Something odd:
Yesterday i printed the form. After a few curses about the extra paper, etc, i started to fill it in and found section 1 had certain "issues" - like no tick boxes to say what was being done (initial, reval. Renewal, etc) - the next line under applicant's name, so i decided i probably meant to circle the "renewal" word and cross out the others, and someone had forgotten to ask what type OR class rating it was just under that, the wording only asked about type rating not class rating so I added the phrase "class rating" in ink.
Dave's link (above) took me earlier today to a form with those issues fixed, it had proper tick boxes and asked about type OR class, but now, a few hours later, the same link above takes me to the form that I saw yesterday with minor problems in it. Not worried about such minor issues fixed with a pen, it is the unnecessary extra pages that are annoying.

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:00 pm
by Balliol
I formally wrote to CAA on this issue a week or so ago, IFEA and AOPA endorsed the points as well. I believe another update is being sorted to address.

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:04 am
by GAFlyer4Fun
Irv Lee wrote:...
And, BTW, can this - or that - be done anytime during the second 12 months ?
My two years is up at an awkward time of the Winter for my a/c & strip operation: I don't want to get dunned.
mike hallam

Yes, any time before expiry once the 2nd year flying requirement is completed...
(but you can have fewer p1 hours than you mention ... whilst usually it is 11 p1 & 1 pu/t, up to 6 of 12 can be pu/t leaving remainder p1 (and don't forget the to&l))


I am in the 2nd year of the biennial cycle and due to good summer weather I satisfied all the SEP revalidation by experience requirements you mention above well before the last 3 months before expiry.

I went to a local flying school that I drive by on my commute and asked for a SEP reval by experience signoff and they said no because cant do the sign off this early.

I questioned it. They had a rummage though the rules online and the form and still believed they could not do it so early. They phoned the CAA for clarification, using my licence number for reference.
The CAA answer is have to wait to the last 3 months before expiry.
(The flying school made no comment about my previous SEP reval being signed off earlier than the last 3 months before the previous expiry date).

I don't know if the above decision represents a recent common interpretation of the rules by everyone at CAA FCL, or just one particular person at CAA FCL.

(The SEP is for an EASA PPL(A) )

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:21 am
by Balliol
School and CAA are wrong, the revalidation by experience can be signed any time in second year that requirements are met. Last 3 month is only for revalidation by proficiency check

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:29 am
by allout
As always, I agree with Balliol.

Here are the references to quote at your local flying school (& even CAA)
Revalidation is defined in the Aircrew Regulation; Reg(EU) 1178/2011:
- FCL.010 "‘Revalidation’ (of, e.g. a rating or certificate) means the administrative action taken within the period of validity of a rating or certificate which allows the holder to continue to exercise the privileges of a rating or certificate for a further specified period consequent upon the fulfilment of specified requirements."
Note: 'within the period of validity.
- FCL.740(a) defines the period of validity of an SEP Class rating (2 years)
- FCL.740.A(b) defines what must be done to revalidate (either a prof. check in the last 3 months or experience in the last 12 months)

So, at any time that you have the experience requirements (ie within the last 12 months), revalidation can take place.

Once you have got these exact paragraph numbers, Google can find the exact text.
Do let us know how you get on.

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:07 am
by Bathman
This is because the the renewal/revalidation system doesn't work. Its needs a complete overhaul. May I suggest the cut and paste the FAA flight review system.

Re: Form 1157 new Nov 2018 version. Sep renewals.

PostPosted:Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:24 am
by allout
But GAFlyer4Fun's problem was not caused by the renewal/revalidation system.
The problem arose, instead, from the flying school's (& CAA's) imagination of what the system is.
Their imagination is what was broken, not the renewal/revalidation system.