Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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Hello all,

I had not given the following questions much thought until I read a page on Bristol Groundschool's website, and it just leaves me with more concern and questions.

I currently have an EASA UK PPL and will be starting ATPLs in the next few weeks. Reading Bristol Groudschool's advice: https://www.bristol.gs/brexit-preparation/, I am thinking of transferring my licence to another EASA state - likely Ireland or Austria - as I plan to complete my CPL, ME, IR overseas and imagine that it will constrain me once qualified if an agreement isn't reached. Alternatively, if an agreement is reached, I imagine it will be easy to then revert back to the UK CAA. What I don't want to happen is to get stuck with a UK PPL and to be confined to only completing my training and job finding in the UK.

Am I correct, does anyone have more knowledge/understanding or different opinions on this?

Also, if I transfer my licence, what will happen to my IR(R)? Will I just lose the rating until I revert back to the UK CAA?

And what does this mean if I want to fly a G reg aircraft using another states licence if we do have a hard BREXIT?

P.S. please don't start debating BREXIT, what we should and what we shouldn't have done.
Last edited by UKflyer on Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just came across CAP1714 which clearly answers most of those questions.

In the article it mentions: "Pilots with UK licences who want to fly EU-registered aircraft post Brexit would need to transfer their licence to another EASA member state before Brexit, or seek a second licence from an EASA member state."

So I could in fact keep my UK CAA licence and therefore retain my IR(R) and have an EASA licence with another state therefore completing my ATPL(f) overseas?

Then I'd also have an EASA ATPL(f) and a UK CAA ATPL(f) as the CAA have said: " we would recognise EASA certificates, approvals and licences for use in the UK aviation system and on UK-registered aircraft at least for a period of two years following Brexit."

Surely it can't be a simple as having two licences? Why would you only transfer to another state rather than having one in EASA land and one in UK CAA land? and therefore having the best of both and being ready for any outcome.
The answer is not easy as it looks like, some stuff get lost in translation while some stuff get invented in translation, I had the experience of the two:
- Losing a NVFR endorsement on my French BB (sort of national NPPL) while converting to EASA PPL via a "real LAPL route" with DGAC in France while we are in transition
- Getting a TMG rating on an EASA PPL without skill test given I had a UK NPPL SLMG and an EASA PPL via a "virtual LAPL route" with UK CAA while we are in transition

I also end up with both French LAPL & PPL for sometime, but had to give one back :roll:

The emphasis is on "while we are on transition" but for an IRR it seems rather a loss if you move away from UK CAA...
You can’t hold EASA licenses from multiple EASA member states, but you can have multiple non-EASA licences from ICAO states.

So what I’d suggest is transfer to another state of licence issue for EASA, but also get the U.K. to issue a U.K. non-EASA (but ICAO compliant) licence.

Administratively it’s probaly easier to get the U.K. licence first and then switch EASA licence afterwards (but still before Brexit!).
Thank you for the replies. It's certainly uncertain times.

Is it possible to currently get a UK national PPL? Or will this only happen once we leave the EU?

I imagine that I will have to change my EASA to another state first as otherwise there will surely be complications trying to change to an EASA licence with only a UK national PPL rather than just swapping EASA states?

And then come back and ask the UK CAA to issue me a UK PPL with my ratings. - I wonder how much all of this is going to cost individuals!
UKflyer wrote:Is it possible to currently get a UK national PPL?

Yes, though the mechanism of doing so isn't that clear.

UKflyer wrote:Or will this only happen once we leave the EU?

If we leave EASA. Chances are we won't. But there's a slim chance we might. If we do, there was talk of UK issued EASA licences automatically becoming national licences, but no one is sure.

UKflyer wrote:I imagine that I will have to change my EASA to another state first as otherwise there will surely be complications trying to change to an EASA licence with only a UK national PPL rather than just swapping EASA states?

You don't have to "change", you can hold both licences at once. If you currently have an EASA licence then you can do what you like with it. Any UK national PPL you have is a separate licence.

The fly in the ointment perhaps is that for an EASA licence, your medical has to be in the same country as the state of licence issue. It wasn't like that under JAA, you could have it issued by any country, so EASA has taken a step back in European integration in that respect. I don't know how that then sits with having a UK licence as well, whether you'd need another medical (self declaration is possible) for the UK PPL.
I have a UK-issued EASA PPL with recently renewed IR(R) and a G-registered aircraft, but live in Ireland with that aircraft.

Watching Brexit developments, it does not seem possible regarding my licence to wait so as to see at the last minute what deal the UK makes about EASA membership.

Applying for a change of licence issue ("SOLI") from the UK to Ireland after 29th March is liable to result in the IAA telling me that my UK-issued EASA licence is no longer an EASA licence and thus a change of SOLI is no longer possible.

IAA advice is that change of SOLI takes some months even in normal times. Allowing "months" for the changeover, maybe I should be taking action now.

But I don't want to relinquish my very useful IR(R), albeit legal only in the UK - where I fly frequently.

If I do nothing until April I run the risk of having to apply for a new IAA-issued EASA licence with the possibility of exams etc

Comments above suggest I should ask the CAA now for a UK national PPL to which the IR(R) could be attached. Then after that I could apply for an Irish EASA PPL and give up my UK EASA one.

What useless complications!

Any advice from gurus here would be gratefully received.

[Thank god for my standalone FAA private certificate, a beacon of sanity .....]
Basil, like you I'm not going to sit on the fence and hope for a positive outcome - I'd rather play safe. Last night I completed my application to change to the IAA, typically the only snag is the UK CAA want a certified copy of my licence with the permission to release form, whereas the IAA just want copies.

BALPA have done a great job of brining all of the Brexit information and advice together:


I'm still not sure if there will be any way to operate with the IR(R) or if we'll just have to wait until 29 March where we can then apply for a UK national licence - reading the above link, having a UK national licence will not be possible before that date.

Also, as far as I'm aware, the medical will transfer over too.
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