Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By kanga
#1859240
Irv Lee wrote:.. students such as microlight students must be able do it, but if you are ab-initio, and going for a ppl(a) or ppl(h), or lapl(a) or (h), ...


ISTR that PPL(G)s may also need only a self-declaration
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1859260
kanga wrote:
Irv Lee wrote:.. students such as microlight students must be able do it, but if you are ab-initio, and going for a ppl(a) or ppl(h), or lapl(a) or (h), ...


ISTR that PPL(G)s may also need only a self-declaration

yes, I get some of them on my radio course, I think one said recently that they use a PMD as students as he was asking about turn around times for the new portal.
By clivewatson
#1861562
Can I apply self declare my medical fitness as a student pilot training for my PPL?

@nickwilcock correctly answered this with a "no."

But as the "holder" of a license that needs to be re validated, can I self declare for any training and skills test?
#1861634
I well remember arguing the case at EASA, the conclusion being that a medical was only required if the pilot wished to exercise licence privileges immediately after the test.

For example, a pilot booked a Part-MED revalidation a week before he/she was due to fly an LPC. But the AME had to cancel the medical check due to illness - it would have been totally unreasonable for the pilot to have had to reschedule the medical.

All agreed (some took a little convincing at first) and that's the interpretation we now have. The only proviso being that the Examiner must remind the pilot that he/she cannot fly as PIC until the medical has been revalidated.
By tailbob
#1861990
The new ANO (Amendment) 2021 Legislation throws some interesting extra questions into the mix. I think it is clear that the use of a PMD with a Part 21 aircraft is only for those who hold a licence and that students without a licence need to have a medical certificate. However the new condition for the PMD use is "comply with ANO 163(5)". Thus it seems that use of an IR(R) rating on Part 21 aircraft will be permitted with a PMD and apparently also the exercise of CRI and FI privileges.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862035
@tailbob i have been trying to think through PMD and instructing, (especially as since January PMD has been put into uk fcl.040), driven by a couple of instructors who have fcl ppl, sep, microlight differences training, and are instructors. They were wondering about, with their qualifications:
1- instructing m'lite on a pmd (because that is what microlight instructors have)
2- instructing ssea (eg microlight to ssea conversion) on a pmd (because that is what the student has).

I haven't got completely down the chain of legislation yet for them, as I keep getting distracted by other things, but whilst exploring, and with reference to your point about ir-r and pmd, I did find the exemption to have a 2000kg pmd definitely mentions vfr, but I havent found anything yet to say that ifr is banned on a 5700kg one.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862050
@Irv Lee its a bit of a maze like always.
The new 2021 amendment entitles a Part-FCL licence holder to exercise their privileges if they have made a PMD :
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/879/made
6. For article 162 (requirement for a medical certificate), substitute—

“162. The holder of a Part-FCL licence is not entitled to exercise any of the privileges of the licence unless the holder—

(a)has a valid medical certificate in accordance with point MED.A.030 of Part-MED, or
(b)has made a medical declaration in accordance with article 163(3) and complies with the conditions in article 163(5).”.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... rticle/163
163 (5) The holder of a licence who does not have a medical certificate and relies on satisfying the requirements of paragraph (3) may only exercise the privileges of the licence—

(a)in an aircraft with a maximum take-off mass of 5,700kg or less;
(b)with not more than three passengers on board;
(c)by day or when exercising the privileges of a night rating;
(d)in visual meteorological conditions or when exercising the privileges of an instrument meteorological conditions rating; and
(e)within the United Kingdom unless the holder has the permission of the competent authority for the airspace in which the aircraft is being flown.


A simple reading suggests a medical cert is no longer required for anything, so long as you stick to those limitations above - so if you were a pilot in a very small airline doing scheduled public transport flights in a light 4 seat aircraft outside the airways, you could now use a medical declaration instead of a class 1 with your ATPL? Instructors no longer need a medical to instruct in small aircraft in the UK? If I'm understanding this right - is this not big news?
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862100
The idea that a pmd can be used in a variety of new situations is something I had arrived at, but have been searching to see if anything elsewhere opposes it. The first amendment puts pmd into fcl.040 too, but it seems to me one of the problems of fcl is that it assumes you read it all every time you want to know something, so if you think one regulation allows something there mat be something elsewhere which needs taking in.
By Simon_498
#1863041
This shouldn't be as difficult as the CAA make it. Trying to navigate the website and information is both confusing and contradictory in places. Even my AME doesn't know!

I hold a LAPL licence and medical (expiring October). I did hold PPL(A) and class 2 but a heart attack just over 5 years ago (when I was 48) meant a class 2 was just out of reach.

Now CAA guidance says that for a class 2 and Exercise Tolerance Test (Treadmill ECG) is required for the 5 years post event. I'm now past that.

The LAPL Self Declaration says 'Pilots must not make a pilot medical declaration if they do not reasonably believe that they meet the medical requirements for a Group 1 (Car) Licence issued by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency and in addition, comply with the following requirements.' I meet those requirements.

I don't fly anything greater than 2000kg MTOW, always VFR and flying in the UK suits me.

So, can I self declare??
By Simon_498
#1863043
I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago, before the Self Declaration came in. I jumped through hoops to get my first class 2 afterward and then I did swap to LAPL and had to have a ETT and cardio report to get a LAPL medical. LAPL does still allow a night rating, aerobatics but no IMC or overseas flying. I fly UK and VFR so the MTOW restriction was fine with what I flew.

Now looking to see if I can Self Declare but get different advice from CAA and AME.

It should be cleared!



karlbown wrote:Went to see my AME today as my medical was running out and I had a heart attack in May and knew I wasn't going to get a new certificate.

My licence is EASA PPL. The doctor said I had two options to continue to fly.

a) Swap my licence for a LAPL, and self declare under the LAPL scheme
b) Keep my PPL but Self Declare under the recently introduced PPL scheme - but no night or instrument flying (I don't have either rating), and no flying in Europe (probably not going to do that in the near future anyway)

I couldn't see the benefit of swapping to a LAPL at the moment so I went onto the CAA website and completed the form for a:
"EU Part- Flight Crew Licensing (FCL) Private Pilot Licence (PPL) to fly non-EASA aircraft"
and sent it off.

Now to my questions, thanks for your patience!

Is this the right application for me?

Do I need to wait for it to be approved or am I now self declared as soon as I complete the form?

What does it mean by Non-EASA aircraft? I currently fly a Jodel on the LAA register, is this ok?

Thanks for any guidance you can give. Looking forward to getting back in the air after nine months off with cancer and a heart attack. Fingers crossed I've got it right!
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1863064
Simon_498 wrote:This shouldn't be as difficult as the CAA make it. Trying to navigate the website and information is both confusing and contradictory in places. Even my AME doesn't know!

I hold a LAPL licence and medical (expiring October). I did hold PPL(A) and class 2 but a heart attack just over 5 years ago (when I was 48) meant a class 2 was just out of reach.

Now CAA guidance says that for a class 2 and Exercise Tolerance Test (Treadmill ECG) is required for the 5 years post event. I'm now past that.

The LAPL Self Declaration says 'Pilots must not make a pilot medical declaration if they do not reasonably believe that they meet the medical requirements for a Group 1 (Car) Licence issued by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency and in addition, comply with the following requirements.' I meet those requirements.

I don't fly anything greater than 2000kg MTOW, always VFR and flying in the UK suits me.

So, can I self declare??

You actually say you meet all requirements for a PMD (<2000kg). What is stopping you?
The exemption that allows the 2000kg limit for PMD is ors4 1487, and it says a uk issued fcl licence like a UK lapl(a) can have the 2000kg limit pmd but:
Licence holders must not make a Pilot Medical Declaration unless they reasonably believe
that they meet the medical requirements for a Group 1 (Car) Licence issued by the Driver
and Vehicle Licensing Agency and are not taking medication for any psychiatric illness.
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