Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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ORS4 No.1143 was withdrawn and allegedly included in the ANO 2016.
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplic ... il&id=7030

An examiner told me it was never included.

I have searched the ANO and found a section on page 70 referring to training in non-EASA aircraft, but when I pointed that out to said examiner he said it was not relevant.

Can anyone shed any light on this? Is any training happening (or has happened since withdrawal of the ORS)?

Regards the LAA, they still refer to the defunct ORS
https://www.lightaircraftassociation.co ... rcraft.pdf


Hi Mark,

The content of TL2.09 is correct albeit ORS4 No. 1143 was withdrawn when the content was embedded into ANO 2016. ANO Article 42 now covers it - if you are a sole owner or part-owner such that the only payment made is for the instructor or examiner, you are clearly not hiring the aircraft.

I edit TL2.09 and will update it when I get chance. In the meantime if your instructor/examiner has any questions please do get in contact.

Thanks, Cookie.

The reason I didn't raise this officially with the LAA is becuase we are looking at training in permit helicopters with CAA issued permits. Mentioning helicopters to the LAA makes them go a bit queazy.

I had confirmation from the CAA pre 2016 that training on a permit heli was fine. In the interim the ORS was withdrawn and they seem to have gone a bit coy.

What is article 42? I've searched the ANO and the only ref is to an external EU directive. I assume that's not what you mean.

I should say this is not for me personally, I'm just trying to progress things for the greater good. There are people who want to learn on permit helis and people who want to train on them but a general scepticism that it is allowed.

User avatar
By T67M
I believe all of the above references to "permit" aircraft actually mean "LAA permit". The rules may (or may not) be different for aircraft flying under an "EASA permit". I'm just starting to examine this minefield pending a modification (new prop) to my CofA aircraft which will render it an EASA permit aircraft for a few months until the STC is issued.
Cookie wrote:The regulations described in LAA Technical Leaflet 2.09 pertain to aeroplanes with a national Permit to Fly.


How can I find the regulation?

The ORS was not aeroplanes it was aircraft and the CAA had already confirmed to me that it included helis. Either it was incorporated in regulations as was OR aircraft was dropped in favour of aeroplanes. Reading the actual regulation (as opposed to the LAA leaflet) should clarify.
ArthurG wrote:I should have added that my training was for an 'upgrade' from LAPL to PPL, so not initial...

I'm hoping to do this exact route with training as required for radio nav and instrument appreciation on a suitably equipped aircraft and the qxc on my own to reduce costs. Any chance of a pm with some info on how you did the conversion and who with?
Kind Regards