Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By KeithM
#1691709
Mikebbb, looking at that document, it seems that you could have ticked more than one box. You may, therefore, now have to submit a further form.

Oh, and you would not be the first one to go down the NPPL route (if that is the case) due to a misunderstanding of the licensing system. I know someone who recently took up flying who, I think, might now wish he had spent a little more money and gone for the EASA LAPL instead of NPPL(M). Unfortunately, he has also paid in advance for the course!

That said, I am not knocking NPPL(M) as it certainly suits many pilots who only intend to fly in the U.K. and who wish to keep flying costs down!

Just to clarify on the matter of EASA PPL validated with LAPL Medical Certificate, this is an option not yet in place. It was hoped to be available by this summer. The idea is to allow current EASA PPL holders to fly with reduced license privileges (i.e. EASA LAPL privileges) without the need to convert their existing licenses.

Unlike the “self-declare” this is, therefore, a European provision, not one restricted to the U.K.

And I also forgot, in my case, that if I did convert to LAPL in October, my current Class 2 would cover me for a further twelve months, so need to self-declare or take the LAPL medical exam as I suggested previously.

See, even I got confused!

:)
By tailbob
#1691727
Think of the PMD form as only applying to the extant rules, not the current exemption.
Exemption being to fly EASA aircraft with a PPL and PMD under LAPL privileges in UK.
Under the current exemption it doesn't matter which box you tick, it is still a valid PMD.
Don't get confused by the list of medical conditions which preclude a PMD, under LAPL privileges, the only one that really matters is not taking psychiatric medication.
However there are other issues which stop an ordinary driving licence but your treating physician should be familiar with those.
By KeithM
#1691751
tailbob wrote:Think of the PMD form as only applying to the extant rules, not the current exemption.
Exemption being to fly EASA aircraft with a PPL and PMD under LAPL privileges in UK.
Under the current exemption it doesn't matter which box you tick, it is still a valid PMD.
Don't get confused by the list of medical conditions which preclude a PMD, under LAPL privileges, the only one that really matters is not taking psychiatric medication.
However there are other issues which stop an ordinary driving licence but your treating physician should be familiar with those.


Now I’m confused! :)

In simple terms, and as I understand it, the PMD (self-declare) can, until April 2020, be used with ANY of the previously mentioned licenses, but in all cases it restricts the pilot to flight within the U.K.

As for it not mattering which box to tick on the PMD form, I have my doubts because the form clearly provides the option to tick more than one box as it clearly states “licence(s)”.

No disrespect intended, but are you sure that the CAA would not require another form, or an amended one, to be submitted to cover both Mikebbb’s PPL and NPPL(M)?

I would be pleasantly surprised if they didn’t!

As far as medical conditions are concerned it is, of course, the pilot’s responsibility to be honest when self-declaring and if in any doubt to consult either an AME or GP. I would not wish to comment further on that subject as I am neither of those nor a CAA employee! :)

EDIT!!
Oops, missed Mikebbb’s earlier comment about license options on the PMD form shown. Indeed, there appears to be no EASA PPL or EASA LAPL option for flying “EASA” aircraft! Why not?

Enlighten me, somebody, ‘cos I’m confused again!
By tailbob
#1691756
The rationale behind the PMD is to provide statistical evidence that an equivalent level of safety is achieved with self declaration as with an examination based certificate. The boxes regarding different licences are there to collect that evidence and as noted were those over which the UK CAA held authority. Now we temporarily have an additional category (Part FCL licence with EASA aircraft) and therefore just use box(s) which are closest to your situation.
By KeithM
#1691759
tailbob wrote:The rationale behind the PMD is to provide statistical evidence that an equivalent level of safety is achieved with self declaration as with an examination based certificate. The boxes regarding different licences are there to collect that evidence and as noted were those over which the UK CAA held authority. Now we temporarily have an additional category (Part FCL licence with EASA aircraft) and therefore just use box(s) which are closest to your situation.


Thanks tailbob!

Hope Mikebbb is now clear.....finally! Poor chap! :)

Pending a response, just did some checking to see if there was an updated form but it seems not.

Also the apparently most recent one (2014) refers, in the guidance notes, to an exemption that expires in April of 2018!

Who said that the actual flying of an aircraft was the easy bit?

So true! :D
By KeithM
#1691860
cotterpot wrote:Form SRG1210 Issue 03, September 2016 is my latest form :thumright:


Just checked CAA list again which, presumably, is up to date as one of the listed forms is dated March 2019.

No SRG1210 on the list! :?:

And searching “SRG1210” gets me nowhere, either!
By KeithM
#1691961
cotterpot wrote:You are correct
It doesn't appear to have a number now.

It's here

https://apply.caa.co.uk/CAAPortal/terms ... rmCode=PMD


Sorry, but that’s the same form as the one we have been previously discussing, (says 2014 at the bottom) without any tick boxes for “EASA” aircraft but only “Non-EASA” ones.

Also, in the guidance notes, it mentions an exemption until April 2018 not 2020.
User avatar
By flybymike
#1691971
This has all been discussed before.

For reasons known only to themselves, the CAA have not updated the original PMD form, which when first issued did not cover EASA licences, but these are now however covered by the existing exemption until April 2020.

Just use the original form together with the current exemption for EASA licences. (UK use only)
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By KeithM
#1692009
flybymike wrote:This has all been discussed before.

For reasons known only to themselves, the CAA have not updated the original PMD form....


I thought that might be the case!

Has the matter ever been raised with the CAA Licensing Department?
By Mikebbb
#1692072
Thanks again everyone. The trouble is I can't see the flying school I rent from letting me hire something on this basis. I sent then am email last week asking and they haven't even replied which doesn't bode well. Also insurance companies being what they are, I'd worry they'd see this as a get out clause. So near yet so far!
By KeithM
#1692127
Mikebbb wrote:Thanks again everyone. The trouble is I can't see the flying school I rent from letting me hire something on this basis. I sent then am email last week asking and they haven't even replied which doesn't bode well. Also insurance companies being what they are, I'd worry they'd see this as a get out clause. So near yet so far!


If a Class 2 is suspended by an AME, pending follow-up examinations, I can see why eyebrows might be raised if a pilot elects not to go ahead with the examinations. That said there might be another reason why you have had no reply so might be worth asking them?

In my case, that was one of the reasons last time, that I decided to complete the (yes, expensive!) process and get my Class 2 revalidated on that occasion rather than just abort it and apply for LAPL instead. It seemed better to start with a “clean sheet”, so to speak, which I now have.