Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
Forum rules: Please keep it polite!
By oldbiggincfi
#1565612
How is possible to have a TMG in Class/ Type /IR section of Ratings previously held by holder ?
Just had my EASA CPL reurned following licence upgrade changes, tests completed in February,
Hey Ho the wheels of power turn very very slowly even with constant visits to oil.

TMG appears on the back side and only SEP(Land) on the nil Remarks and Restrictions.
Correct me if I'm wrong in thinking if renewal in either TMG or SEP renews both.

If that is not the case can I be pointed in some direction to move TMG from back to front.

TMG also appears Nil on the front of my SPL so would not consider being unlicenced to fly a TMG such as a Fournier on which have over 250 hrs .
By Balliol
#1565621
I saw this somewhere else recently where the examiner had not put in the two distinct SEP(Land) and TMG(Land) entries when revalidating someones rating 'in the field', and hence when licence goes to CAA they see it as an expired rating on the reprint and it goes on the back. If you had a clearly annotated valid TMG I would go back to the CAA and request a reprint as they missed it, alternatively you may have to do a proficiency check in a TMG to get it put back on (and pay the CAA a fee to move from back to front). PM me if you need a TMG examiner. The other method is to just do TMG stuff on your SPL if its there ok.
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565667
If you really mean renew, no it doesn't. Renewing Sep renews Sep. The only link between Sep and tmg is reval by experience of both when both are current.
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565669
oldbiggincfi wrote:If that is not the case can I be pointed in some direction to move TMG from back to front.

TMG also appears Nil on the front of my SPL so would not consider being unlicenced to fly a TMG such as a Fournier on which have over 250 hrs .

1. prof check and eighty odd pounds
2. Isn't it "restrictions" that has Nil...? i.e. Tmg nil restrictions.
By oldbiggincfi
#1565697
Irv Lee wrote:
oldbiggincfi wrote:
Isn't it "restrictions" that has Nil...? i.e. Tmg nil restrictions.


Yes, on my SPL only.

Ah ! it's the revalidation and not the renewal where both or either count - the light shines ?

Can you not fly, say an RF4 on a EASA PPL ( SEP A) ? cause it might be difficult to fit two people into one seat for a checkout, whatever.

I'm not keen on forking out another 80 quid plus hire on something I could always do until conversion of UK ATPL to EASA CPL came along.
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565749
Not 100% up on motor gliders I am afraid. Yours is a non EASA slmg. They are stranger than most things, like if you want a tmg rating from Sep you take a test and add a rating, if you want to have slmg rating from Sep you just train and apply (but can't put it in an EASA licence). I haven't seen a SPL yet, you said it has tmg in it, can't you fly it on that or does that need resurrecting there too? I would guess the CAA allow an EASA licence current for tmg to fly non EASA slmg, but don't know
By Balliol
#1565769
I thought the RF4 was EASA and not Annex 2?

TMG is a different class so cannot be flown using an SEP with differences training, hence the need for training and class rating test etc

The TMG on a SPL is subject to LAPL(S) recency requirements - i.e. It doesn't have a expiry date but you need to satisfy the hours, flight with an instructor or do test / flown hours solo under supervision etc etc simple eh?!
By allout
#1565788
EASA's TMG licencing certainly gives scope for confusion. Might be helpful to consolidate Balliol's, and other, advice.

There are three (count them!) different licences that can permit TMG flying.

1. PPL(A) (or higher) with TMG Class Rating.
- Regulations in the FCL.7xx series; same as for SEP Class Rating

2. LAPL(A) with the TMG restriction removed
- FCL.135.A for getting it; FCL.140.A for maintaining it

3. LAPL(S) or SPL extended to TMG
- FCL.135.S for getting it; FCL.140.S for maintaining it

Both LAPLs & the SPL are great licences, no Class Ratings, no revalidation, no renewal, no examiner involvement for keeping them going.

Quite separate are the UK national licences with SLMG Ratings, but the OP didn't ask about these ......

(& the UK provision permitting motor glider flying with SEP Class Rating + differences training was different again: that disappeared in 2012)
By oldbiggincfi
#1565798
allout wrote:Quite separate are the UK national licences with SLMG Ratings, but the OP didn't ask about these ......


Still maintain a UK ATPL with current SEP (A)
Must say I did not know you could add SLMG to that .
Assumed because I learnt to fly and passed my original GFT on a Fournier now a SLMG could still use the PPL bit to fly one.

Thanks for the summary of licences.
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565800
It is a sorry reflection on the administration of licensing, when two, at least, of the most respected and knowledgeable members of this Forum, are unsure.
What chance does the "average" examiner/ instructor have?....Especially when the Administrators in their Ivory Tower can't keep up with their own labyrinthine rules. :roll:
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565804
Balliol wrote:I thought the RF4 was EASA and not Annex 2?


I looked up Fournier on GINFO, found rf4d, picked one at random and found no mention of EASA, just 'permit'. Then when you posted that, I did same again but picked another - and found "EASA"! How does that work then?
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565806
@cockney steve
I'm not a MG or Sailplane expert! It does look like the gliding community might get a postponement of EASAcution and stay on death row for another couple of years after April to see if a reprieve or pardon arrives
cockney steve liked this
User avatar
By nallen
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565814
Irv Lee wrote:
Balliol wrote:I thought the RF4 was EASA and not Annex 2?


I looked up Fournier on GINFO, found rf4d, picked one at random and found no mention of EASA, just 'permit'. Then when you posted that, I did same again but picked another - and found "EASA"! How does that work then?


Historical anomaly, I believe. They were Permit (somehow), but then the CAA at some point decided that future ones coming onto the register (imports, I guess) couldn't be Permit aircraft, so these are now EASA. Hence the mix. Same aircraft; different regimes!
By oldbiggincfi
#1565821
Are there any TMG 's on the G-INFO register ?

I can only see (FIXED-WING SELF-LAUNCHING MOTOR GLIDER) and
(EASA Category:CS-22A: Sailplane or Powered Sailplane - Utility Category)

The most common example being the Falke and the usual suspect on a gliding site.

Same animal different name ?