Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By seanxair
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1561039
Sorry for yet another thread on licenses etc. I'm somewhat the wiser from the other 10 page thread but still a bit unsure so apologies. :?

I have an NPPL (A) with a microlight rating and fly a high wing taildragger from a strip at home.

As I understand it I can, until next April, take instruction with a view to achieving a rating to be able to fly something a bit heavier. I'm vaguely considering something with wingfold similar to mine though might look at other LAA types. Will need to be high wing but tricycle may work though tailwheel preferable.

Questions:

1. What is involved in the conversion of the license hours wise so I can calculate costs? I know some have done crammer courses for want of a better term.

2. What written or other exams are involved? :(

3. If I convert say on a Cessna 150 at a local school do I then need an additional tailwheel endorsement?

4. If I converted on a tailwheel aircraft could I fly a tricycle aircraft or would that be yet another conversion?

5. If I get the new rating does it allow me to still fly microlights when the present microlight rating expires and do those microlight hours count to maintaining the new rating?

6. Conversely if I get the new rating will the hours on a heavier type maintain the microlight rating even though I may not be flying one?

7. If I had 2 aircraft :D (dream on) would mixing the hours together all count?

8. And would I need a seperate instructor hour in each type in the 2 year period to maintain both?

Just mulling it over at present and now may be the time to do it if at all.

Thanks in advance and all advice welcome.
#1561044
seanxair wrote:Sorry for yet another thread on licenses etc. I'm somewhat the wiser from the other 10 page thread but still a bit unsure so apologies. :?

I have an NPPL (A) with a microlight rating and fly a high wing taildragger from a strip at home.

As I understand it I can, until next April, take instruction with a view to achieving a rating to be able to fly something a bit heavier. I'm vaguely considering something with wingfold similar to mine though might look at other LAA types. Will need to be high wing but tricycle may work though tailwheel preferable.

Questions:

1. What is involved in the conversion of the license hours wise so I can calculate costs? I know some have done crammer courses for want of a better term.


Legally a minimum 3 hours (1hr instrument appreciation and 2hrs stall/spin awareness) plus the two skill tests (navigation and handling). In reality 10-12 hours most likely, as most microlight pilots take a while to get used to the more procedural / systems based nature of "group A" flying, and the group A approach to nav.

2. What written or other exams are involved? :(

For NPPL(M)-->NPPL(SSEA) should be just the technical paper. That is worth checking however, as the goalposts seem to move from time to time.

3. If I convert say on a Cessna 150 at a local school do I then need an additional tailwheel endorsement?

Yes, but there's no minimum hours. A briefing and three circuits is entirely adequate legally. Basically just include it in a checkout.

4. If I converted on a tailwheel aircraft could I fly a tricycle aircraft or would that be yet another conversion?

Same answer.

5. If I get the new rating does it allow me to still fly microlights when the present microlight rating expires and do those microlight hours count to maintaining the new rating?

6. Conversely if I get the new rating will the hours on a heavier type maintain the microlight rating even though I may not be flying one?


7. If I had 2 aircraft :D (dream on) would mixing the hours together all count?

8. And would I need a seperate instructor hour in each type in the 2 year period to maintain both?

Just mulling it over at present and now may be the time to do it if at all.

Thanks in advance and all advice welcome.

Here's the current wording on the NPPL website. It's all pretty flexible.

2. Holder of a licence with 2 or 3 ratings (SSEA/SLMG/Microlight):
(a) Within the period of validity of the rating on any of the classes of aeroplanes held, have flown as pilot:
• at least a total of 12 hours including 8 hours PIC
• at least 12 take-offs and landings
• at least 1 hour of flight training with an instructor. If this flight time has not been completed all ratings will be endorsed ‘Single seat only’.
(b) Within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the ratings held have flown, as pilot on any of the class ratings held:


G
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1561052
Quite a few microlight people got both ratings in recent years before bringing ends, as an investment for getting a lapl in future without being told to do a whole course. Once they have it, after that many do their 11 hours in micros (which is their current flying interest) and just do the one training hour in ssea, this combination keeps both ratings valid providing they ask for a double revalidation every time.
It is not difficult to get ssea from micro, and with this incredible prejudiced anti GA thinking from EASA which evidenced having any sort of end to the bridging period, I do not know why many more do not do it. It is good to do something different now and again,
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1561074
seanxair wrote:until next April


Is this the case?

Isn't it the case that NPPL(M) to NPPL(SSEA) will still be available, it'll just be the NPPL(SSEA) to LAPL which will turn into a pumpkin?

Once this pumpkin has come to be, you won't be able to fly the C150 any more as it's an EASA aeroplane, so you will need the LAPL or EASA PPL. You will still be able to fly Annex II aeroplanes though.
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By seanxair
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1561091
Thanks all.

So the easy step from NPPL(M) to NPPL(SSEA) will still be there without full blown ab initio training but come April I wouldn't be able to fly a C150 (but could now if I had the SSEA rating?)

So if I held NPPL(SSEA) now I would need to do what to make it LAPL or EASA PPL?

NPPL(SSEA) allows me to fly a homebuilt say Eurostar but not a factory built version? Is that right?

I research loads of stuff and mostly do but sometimes it is just easier to ask!
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1561101
seanxair wrote:Thanks all.

So the easy step from NPPL(M) to NPPL(SSEA) will still be there without full blown ab initio training but come April I wouldn't be able to fly a C150 (but could now if I had the SSEA rating?)

So if I held NPPL(SSEA) now I would need to do what to make it LAPL or EASA PPL?

NPPL(SSEA) allows me to fly a homebuilt say Eurostar but not a factory built version? Is that right?

I research loads of stuff and mostly do but sometimes it is just easier to ask!

Sorry maybe I should have been clearer. Microlight to SSEA or SLMG or any combination or conversion of ratings WITHIN an NPPL licence, no problem, no end date, carry on as always. However, from April 8th 2018, NPPL licences can only fly non EASA aircraft (eg: NOT fly, for example, the main rental spam-can fleet) they have to stick to non-EASA aircraft eg: permit to fly
MANY people doing micro to ssea conversion purely to go one tiny step further easy to get a LAPL(A) - and that final conversion is where there is currently an end date.
The conversion SSEA to LAPL(A) is purely that you would get a LAPL medical - a LAPL medical is hardly a severe thing, but it usually costs about £100 give or take £50! - and then fill in a conversion form to say you have an NPPL SSEA (and provide proof) and pay £41. You do not lose your NPPL, but you get an EASA LAPL which allows continued use of EASA aircraft (the cessnas, pipers, common rental types) over all of the EASA states.
Looking at one of my web pages may help, it is so complicated what you can and can't do, from when or until when, using what licence/rating or what medical, you would think I had made it up, until you realise 'you couldn't make this up!'
http://www.higherplane.co.uk/combos.html
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By seanxair
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1561105
Irv Lee wrote:Looking at one of my web pages may help, it is so complicated what you can and can't do, from when or until when, using what licence/rating or what medical, you would think I had made it up, until you realise 'you couldn't make this up!'
http://www.higherplane.co.uk/combos.html


Brilliant. Thanks Irv. I've bookmarked the page. Look forward to digging deeper.
#1561303
seanxair wrote: NPPL(SSEA) allows me to fly a homebuilt say Eurostar but not a factory built version? Is that right?


Just to answer that specific point: I think it's sort of correct but possibly not for the reason you think..... A factory built Eurostar in the UK MUST be a microlight and thus you need your NPPL(Microlight) for that. All non-microlight Eurostars must be homebuilts because they don't come within the UK Section S limitations and thus couldn't/can't be factory built for the UK.... but you can fly them fine on an NPPL(SSEA) because they're still Annex 2 aircraft.

Evector also do the Sportstar, which can be homebuilt under LAA rules and flown with an NPPL(SSEA)... but they also do a version of the Sportstar which is EASA certified and I assume can only be flown (post the cut-off date) on an EASA license such as the LAPL.....

(I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!)
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By Cookie
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1561648
1. What is involved in the conversion of the license hours wise so I can calculate costs? I know some have done crammer courses for want of a better term.


Details of the conversion requirements can be found at paragraph 2.1.2 of the 'Allowances against training' document which can be found on the NPPL website and in CAP 804 Section 5 Part A Appendix 1.

2. What written or other exams are involved?


Required theoretical knowledge examinations are Aircraft General and Principles of Flight in accordance with para 2.1.2.1 (d). Flight tests are Navigation Skills Test and General Skills Test at para 2.1.2.1(f).

5. If I get the new rating does it allow me to still fly microlights when the present microlight rating expires and do those microlight hours count to maintaining the new rating?


No, it doesn't. For the NPPL, each of the class ratings is mutually exclusive, so the SSEA class rating does not allow you to fly microlights.

6. Conversely if I get the new rating will the hours on a heavier type maintain the microlight rating even though I may not be flying one?


Cross-crediting is available. See the FAQs on the NPPL website.

Cookie
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1561789
seanxair wrote: NPPL(SSEA) allows me to fly a homebuilt say Eurostar but not a factory built version? Is that right?

I would not particularly think in terms of build, it is easier to check by reg or type.
Have a look at G-info on the CAA website. https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=1 (more memorable but less direct way to it is via http://www.caa.co.uk/ginfo)
Then either enter a registration that you know, or even start with a type, like Eurostar, and just pick one aircraft and get down to detail.
Firstly, note when looking at the detail of one aircraft on G-info is whether it says "non EASA" under EASA Category - if it does, you can fly this on an nppl with the correct rating now and also after April 8th 2018, assuming mauw is two metric tonnes or lighter. If it mentions EASA under CofA/Permit field, you cannot use a national licence like the nppl with it after that date next year. Now to see about "correct" ratings:
If the detail says "microlight" when you click on a specific aircraft, you can fly it on an nppl with microlight rating, but not an nppl with ssea rating.
If you pick a registration that comes up with a description of "fixed-wing land plane" rather than microlight, then providing the max au mass is 2 metric tonnes or less, you can fly it in the UK on an nppl with ssea rating, but not using a nppl with microlight rating. (If you want a non Eurostar example of a fixed wing land plane, try g-blmn which I used to fly, you will see it is non EASA, well within the nppl weight, and fixed wing landplane, so nppl-ssea is fine for now and the future, nppl-microlight is not.).

Ps: added: of course the above assumes the fixed wing aircraft has just one piston engine not more!
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1562021
@Arclite01 If it's an EASA glider, you may be in luck....
[stir]
I think EASA are considering putting the end date for glider pilots further out so that their committees have more capacity to invent even more ways for the richer end to get their I/Rs, they haven't had a new way for a couple of years now.
[/stir]
[Serious stir]
On your problem, if you ask the FAA for a full FAA PPL, you can then fly your EASA aircraft until April 2019 by filling in form SRG2140 - I suspect you meet the requirements. That is a whole year after EASA bans you from flying your own aircaft locally on your UK licence, and of course by early April 2019 there may be wriggle room, Brexit having happened.
[/serious stir]