Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By MercianMarcus
#1560582
Does anyone know what the situation was back in 87, did you get an RT licence for life?

My UK licence form 1996 came with a separate page for the FRTOL, but my friend, whose was issued in 87, says he does not have that page.

Thanks in advance.

MM
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By flybymike
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1560619
I still use my "for life" FRTOL issued around 1984.
It was a separate piece of paper, independent of the licence. I would have imagined that the same applied in 1987 but can't be sure since I had to take a separate RT exam in a little booth with a radio and an examiner in another separate booth playing the part of the controller.
I vaguely recall that not long afterwards the formal exam was scrapped and something like a continuous instructor assessment system introduced during training.
I haven't the foggiest what they do these days.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1560628
they brought the ground exam and simulator practical back after a while. I think a piece of paper was issued throughout
@MercianMarcus The CAA will have a record if your friend had a radio licence, a phone call should reveal the answer.
By tailbob
#1563124
Before the early 90s, the PPL could be completed without the RT Licence. There was an exemption for students to operate the radio without a licence, as today, and then if you wished to use radio with a PPL you were supposed to get an RT Licence. The reality was that many never bothered to get the licence and just used the radio as they had done while a student. The result was that much RT was of a poor standard. Thus a system of continuous assessment was introduced and supposedly your instructors would continuously teach the RT requirements during the PPL course and all PPLs were issued with an RT Licence. This still resulted in RT of a similar poor standard, so now the practical exam has been reintroduced and must be completed before an EASA PPL or LAPL is issued. An NPPL may still be issued without an RT Licence, or indeed a glider pilot may opt to apply for a standalone RT Licence.
Now the RT practical exam has fallen well behind current practice and an update incorporating the current realities of Mode C, ATSOCAS, listening squawks, TMZs, Class D CTRs and 8.33 channels is required, but will the general RT standard improve?
By Bathman
#1563131
I doubt it. Did the practical exam ever bring about any improvements in RT standards?

Out of interest do other EASA states have a separate practical exam or is it just created as part of the skills test?
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By Andrew Sinclair
#1563277
I believe a private pilot licence of all three flavours may be issued without an FRTOL, in fact you can fly without a radio at all.

The current RT Practical was developed by Chris Caine and utilises Steve Oddy's software. It does take a while to go through 1.5 to 2.5hrs and whilst it was developed with the best of intentions it does need updating and I understand it is on the CAA agend but how high on said agenda I do not know.

When conducting the exams I find candidates broadly fall in to two categories, those that are well taught and well briefed and pass easily or with minor points and those who really struggle. The lot of the latter category is possibly made difficult because of the complexity of the simulator set up and operation and sometimes this necessitates getting a chart, drawing a line from A to B and 'flying' along it for practice before attempting the exam proper.

I do wonder whether it could be incorporated into a skills test.