Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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#1524515
Early Feb I applied to the CAA to regrade my EASA Part-FCL to an LAPL, primarily because I'm sick to death of playing the 'find and chase an AME' game every year as for the past 3 now, each time I've contacted my AME for my Class 2 renewal I'm told "sorry, I've given up doing CAA work" :?

My class 2 has (had) LAPL validity for 15 months from Feb and after some sage advice from Cookie thought I'd do the deed.

Forms required originals of both License and Medical so these went off via Special Delivery. Since then, nothing heard. Ok not unusual but sure in the past I've had an email receipt.

Roll on to yesterday and thinks I'll give them a call ... after listening to the inevitable "we are really busy at the moment and have an unprecedented number of bits of paper to push" and then the "you are number x in the queue" messages for almost an hour, finally got to talk to a human.

Told turnaround of about 8 weeks :roll: ... ok, fair enough, so I ask her whether I can still exercise the privileges of my license whilst it's being 'worked on' to be told quite categorically "NO".

Ok, right so, I still have my old national CAA PPL which is valid. Can I use that. "Only for annexe II aircraft" she says ... um, OK but what about the derogation until 2018 for EASA aircraft? "You can't use that as you have an EASA Part FCL" - eh?

I did get her to concede that if as she asserted the Part FCL was no longer 'valid' because the CAA have it to regrade to an LAPL, then it "should be OK" to fly the Pup on my old CAA License.

I do dispair with the CAA at times. I do not recall reading anything on the form or in the regs that say your license becomes invalid as soon as the CAA have it. If I send in my Firearm certificate to the Police for a variation it doesn't suddenly become invalid and I don't automatically become a criminal for holding my guns at home. How does the possession of a bit of paper that other than me I cannot recall the last time anyone else looked at it (unlike my FAC) make me fit or able to exercise my license privileges - and I took a copy anyway.

Somewhat puzzled by this stance. It's only a license regrade not adding ratings (or having any ratings removed).
#1524545
Paul, she asserted initially that I couldn't use it unless I was flying an Annexe II aircraft - so by implication not valid for flying an EASA aircraft because my EASA FCL covered that.

@riverrock ... I didn't know that ... or if I did, I've forgotten. But that's not helpful when CAA have such a massive backlog of 'stuff' that it is they who delay with just a shrug of shoulders.

Glad I kept my old National PPL now, and possibly may have to self-declare my medical to carry on flying should the CAA backlog cause delays after my Class 2 expires.
#1524553
I agree it isn't helpful - but like it or lump it, it is the law.
https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/ ... gulations/

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files ... rt-FCL.pdf p30
FCL.045 Obligation to carry and present documents
(a) A valid licence and a valid medical certificate shall always be carried by the pilot when exercising
the privileges of the licence.
(b) The pilot shall also carry a personal identification document containing his/her photo.
(c) A pilot or a student pilot shall without undue delay present his/her flight time record for inspection
upon request by an authorised representative of a competent authority.
(d) A student pilot shall carry on all solo cross-country flights evidence of the authorisation required
by FCL.020(a).


It has been discussed on here before.
#1524616
I'd be seriously interested to see whether the CAA would willingly prosecute for failure to carry "your papers" when they themselves had deprived you of their use because it took them eight weeks to get their *rse in gear.

And I'd be seriously interested to hear the view of any court following a prosecution of a fully licenced and qualified pilot exercising his licence privileges under these circumstances.

(The idea that holding an EASA licence invalidates a U.K. PPL is absurd.)
#1524760
trapdoor wrote:...so I ask her whether I can still exercise the privileges of my license whilst it's being 'worked on' to be told quite categorically "NO".

While I sympathise I fear your mistake was in even asking the question.
When I converted to a LAPL I felt my circumstances were sufficiently complex as to be beyond postal means so, with every piece of associated paperwork in my possession, made pilgrimage to the Belgrano and got everything sorted out in one visit.
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#1524875
GolfHotel wrote:..

I wonder if anyone will "lose" their licence and get a duplicate? Then if you "found" it again you would have a spare.


I genuinely did this .. :oops: .. but I still have only one original copy of the current Reval page and Medical