Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By LewisC
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878652
Hi, I got my PPL (A) SEP a couple of months ago and have been looking for my own plane. I found an Arrow II I like but was wondering about ratings.

I know I need a complex and high performance rating bring 200hp but reading the CAA website I see on one page that 200 total hours are needed, of which 70 must be PIC.

Is this right?

Thanks in advance.
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By Rob P
#1878682
LewisC wrote:...but reading the CAA website I see on one page that 200 total hours are needed, of which 70 must be PIC.

Is this right?


With queries like this it is always best to provide a link to the page where you read this.

Rob P
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878688
An Arrow is neither complex nor high-performance by today's definitions.

As noted above, just differences training for both VP/CS propeller and retractable undercarriage is all that is legally required.

If the particular aircraft were equipped with EFIS instruments then that would also require a differences sign-off.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878707
LewisC wrote:This was the page and looking at the URL I can see it’s specific to commercial and not private.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-indust ... eroplanes/

Thanks all


You are looking at the 'single pilot' page; you need to look in single engine piston and then in this subsection:

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-indust ... collapse-4

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By Rob P
#1878759
@LewisC

In the usual manner of thread drift, have you seriously considered if an Arrow is the right aircraft for you at this stage of your flying life?

Rob P
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By LewisC
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878762
Hi @Rob P,

I've been balancing what I'm used to, majority of hours are on 152, then 172 with a few in a PA28 Cadet. I was originally looking at 172 but some of the instructors think I might wish I went for something a little quicker with more to do pretty quickly. It seems the Arrow II is the most simple "complex" plane out there with a decent cruise speed but not a rocket.
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878763
Rob P wrote:@LewisC

In the usual manner of thread drift, have you seriously considered if an Arrow is the right aircraft for you at this stage of your flying life?

Rob P

What factors concern you most? Keeping ahead of the aircraft could be tricky but surely most pilots would be prepared to do enough training after the formal differences to be safe and comfortable?
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By Rob P
#1878764
And have you considered anything other than what you are used to?

Not prying into your finances, but a retractable, VP Cherokee is a bit of a money pit maintenance-wise, though a fairly solid investment in terms of depreciation these days.

It just might be worth your while sampling a few different types of aircraft before jumping into ownership of something you are familiar with.

And of course if you are near East Anglia there's always a share available in Peter's Arrow.

@VRB_20kt I was typing this as you posted. I can't see that the speed difference between a Cadet and an Arrow would be likely to cause any significant issues, it was more the financial aspect, and the 'try a different kind of flying' thing.

Rob P
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878773
Completely agree with your rationale - and probably a lesson for all new PPLs. I wonder how many have the same “mission profile“ (ugh) a few years after passing the test that they have immediately after.
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By LewisC
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878776
Fair points. My plan is to complete the IR(R) in the plane next year but the main plan is just to visit more places in the UK then Northern Europe.

The plane is IFR capable now on its original kit but I would look to modernise it with some GI 275's and a 650. Airframe and engine are both 2300 hours so I know money will need to be spent on that sooner rather than later.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878779
All I would add is that whatever aircraft you buy (and @Rob P has a point that you should consider carefully what type of flying you are likely to be doing), you should not buy anything without doing a lot of research on what aircraft ownership entails, and the aircraft type itself.

There is nothing inherently difficult about aircraft ownership, but there is a lot to learn. It's expensive when you do it right, but can be horrendously expensive if you get it wrong or are just plain unlucky. Take advice, and lots of it. Just because your instructor says you should buy an Arrow is not sufficient reason in itself.

The shorter your average flight, the less advantage a speedier mount brings, but you will be still be paying the heavier maintenance costs that a VP prop and retractable undercarriage bring, Fine if you are planning to do lots of touring, especially abroad, but less so if your average flight turns out to be forty-five minutes in each direction to get a greasy breakfast somewhere.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1878783
It's wise to assess the sort of flying you are likely to do and buy an aircraft that suits. Sounds easy but it isn't. There are very few aircraft that will do long distance, short field and IFR :-)