Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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#1655105
I have JAA PPL with SEP and TMG rating that has been dormant for 5 years.
I have started flying again in the Hubandss Bosworth Falke with an instructor.

It had been my intention to convert to the EASA PPL but having to have a class2 again even though I only intend to be flying in the UK is offputting.

I have no intention of flying abroad at the moment, but it there is a slim chance of it in the distant future.

The CAA help line suggested that having had a JAA PPL before if I wish to upgrade from LAPL to EASA in the future it would just be a case of getting a class2 again and another application.

Is this correct, from previous dealings with the CAA helpdesk they do not seem to be 100% au fait with the their own regs.

Any opinions would be welcome
Last edited by jlinn on Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1655152
jlinn wrote:I have JAA PPL with SEP and TMG rating that has been dormant for 5 years.
I have started flying again in the Hubandss Bosworth Falke with an instructor.

It had been my intention to convert to the EASA PPL but having to have a class2 again even though I only intend to be flying in the UK is offputting.

I have no intention of flying abroad at the moment, but it there is a slim chance of it in the distant future.

The CAA help line suggested that having had a JAA PPL before if I wish to upgrade from LAPL to EASA in the future it would just be a case of getting a class2 again and another application.

Is this correct, from previous dealings with the CAA helpdesk they do not seem to be 100% au fait with the their own regs.

Any opinions would be welcome

Only if they have finally invented a ppl-lapl-ppl(again) "by paperwork" route. I haven't noticed one.
BUT... Ask if you can have a new easa ppl issued with a medical declaration - i think this should be possible as your expired jaa ppl is legally an expired easa ppl.
Last edited by Irv Lee on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1655195
[/quote]
Only if they have finally invented a ppl-lapl-ppl(again) by paperwork route. BUT... Ask if you can have a new easa ppl issued with a medical declaration - i think this should be possible as your expired jaa ppl is legally an expired easa ppl[/quote]

Thanks Irv

This is what I had hoped, I spoke to the Licensing Dept who referred me to Medicals, They in turn said they really weren't sure as their area is apparently the medicals themselves. They said it was possibly more of an issue for Licensing.


SRG1104 form extract below seems to anticipate a medical

3. MEDICAL FITNESS To be completed by the Applicant
Class of Medical Certificate held Date of last Medical Date of Expiry CAA use only
Note: Your medical Certificate must be valid on the licence issue date. If your Medical Certificate is due to expire within
14 days after the date of application for licence issue, please complete the following
My medical examination will take place at: ........................................................... on: ................................................
A licence will not be issued to any person unless their medical records supporting their Part-MED medical certificate are
held by an Aeromedical Centre located in the United Kingdom


I will try and get a response from them on this, I have already completed a self Declaration PMD 5809
#1655200
No, you need to look at the ors4 exemption whilst they need to know what they can and can't do without giving pilots the worst legal route when there are alternative cheap simple legal routes.
Para 5 of the ors4 1283 explanatory notes would make it extremely surprising if you could not get an easa ppl issued from a jaa expired ppl with a caa self declare online medical.
If you go the suggested lapl route I suspect you would end up paying both for conversion now followed by a 15 hour upgrade course later to get a ppl reissued.
#1655427
Don't be too hasty, get ratings' tests done and passed for any ratings you are likely to use soon before applying for a new EASA licence (send any renewal "pass" paperwork with JAA-EASA application), or you will end up paying £80+ extra for each rating renewed.
#1656076
One other point here. Your licence is not a JAA PPL, it is already an EASA Part-FCL PPL anyway, at least until Brexit day.
When the EU rules came in about 7 years ago all JAR-FCL licences issued by Member States (including the UK) were adopted as Part-FCL licences by law. It doesn't matter what the print on it says, it is a Part-FCL European licence, The so-called conversion to EASA was simply a re-issue in a new format - like when your old UK driving licence was replaced by an EU plastic card. If you sent your PPL in to the CAA for an administrative change - such as change of address - you would get a new Part-FCL PPL back from them. The JAR licence no-longer exists in the UK, or indeed in the law of any country.
As explained above you can return your PPL to validity for flight by getting a Class 2 medical and renewing an SEP rating - or you can get the medical appropriate for a LAPL, pass the LAPL skill test and apply to the CAA for it to be re-issued as a LAPL(A). Or you could meet essentially the same requirements and apply through the LAA (Light Aircraft Association) for an NPPL(A).
If you only want to fly G registered aircraft in the UK, Brexit (however it turns out) won't affect you. If you stick with your PPL or go for the LAPL, it will have European privileges if we stay with EASA, or national privileges if we don't.
#1656089
W Smith wrote:One other point here. Your licence is not a JAA PPL, it is already an EASA Part-FCL PPL anyway, at least until Brexit day.
When the EU rules came in about 7 years ago all JAR-FCL licences issued by Member States (including the UK) were adopted as Part-FCL licences by law. It doesn't matter what the print on it says, it is a Part-FCL European licence, The so-called conversion to EASA was simply a re-issue in a new format - like when your old UK driving licence was replaced by an EU plastic card.
If you sent your PPL in to the CAA for an administrative change - such as change of address - you would get a new Part-FCL PPL back from them.

Looking at things mainly from a cost point of view...
We had established it is an expired Easa ppl legally but I suspect if a change of address went in on an expired jaa ppl, it would trigger a demand for an 1104 conversion form plus (an unavoidable) £70+ before an Easa ppl arrived, and the cost point is to get "to be used" ratings renewed before getting the licence reissued to avoid the extra £80+ per rating.
As explained above you can return your PPL to validity for flight by getting a Class 2 medical and renewing an SEP rating....

Yes, true, but as I suspect that they will demand an 1104 conversion form, I also think that whilst the current medical exemption exists, a free self declare medical will be sufficient.
Also, as Brexit is coming, it may be turn out to be cheaper to tick the "national ppl required too" box on the 1104 now on the assumption (guess) that it might be needed, and that it may well be be cheaper now than later.