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By muffin
#1630096
I think I know the answer to this but I just want to make sure.

I have been flying on an LAPL (two actually, fixed wing and rotary) since they very first became available. Until now I have been regularly going for an LAPL medical every two years. When the med dec was announced I made one as a belt and braces move to cover all eventualities.

My LAPL medical runs out later this month and I am debating whether or not I need to renew it? The exemption that allowed the use of the med dec is only valid until some time next year and if its validity were not to be extended for any reason I would again have to rely on the LAPL medical.

Or can one assume that the med dec arrangement will be made permanent?

(I also have a lifetime CAA PPL(A), an NPPL(A) and a lifetime CAA PPL(H), all of which are currently expired as I prefer to fly on the LAPLs because the currency arrangements are so simple.)
#1630098
muffin wrote:Or can one assume that the med dec arrangement will be made permanent?


Who knows!

But as long as you only want to fly in the UK, why not fly on the MedDec, should it go you can then renew your LAPL Medical. There is no difference in renewing one which is a week out to one which is a year out.

muffin wrote:I prefer to fly on the LAPLs because the currency arrangements are so simple.)


@Irv Lee will strike you down for that one!

:D
#1630159
@Flyin'Dutch' everyone of the many i have met flying who were flying out of validity thought it was very simple. Usually it is when i explain it properly they look incredulous. The one guy i flew with whom i genuinely thought understood it (as he insisted on an hour to add to his 12 p1) phoned in a panic a few weeks later saying he had hoped to go flying but had noticed i had forgotten to sign the rating in the licence ....
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#1630174
Two schools I am involved in are now issuing/using a little self made insert slip for the LAPL licence to record date of refresher training session, date that ‘expires’ and space for instructor number and signature. Works well as a prompt (alongside other requirements of course). Some may say it looks remarkably like a rating revalidation page :wink:
#1630232
Balliol wrote:Two schools I am involved in are now issuing/using a little self made insert slip for the LAPL licence to record date of refresher training session, date that ‘expires’ and space for instructor number and signature. Works well as a prompt (alongside other requirements of course). Some may say it looks remarkably like a rating revalidation page :wink:

But this surely pours fuel on one of the main problems - i cannot think of anyone who did not understand that they could not fly if tbey reached two years without an instructor flight
#1630240
You must meet a lot of people who live on planet Zog then Irv.
I just mentally treat the instructor flights like the old reval certificate. I know when they expire (12 months for one and 24 for the other) and make sure I get them done before the deadline. As long as you do a reasonable no of hours fairly often, the other limits don’t catch you out. I have a few friends who are on LAPLs and they all understand this as well. I really do not see a problem!
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#1630250
muffin wrote:You must meet a lot of people who live on planet Zog then Irv.

I suspect that might be what staff at expensive restaurants say if they ever meet and listen to staff at food banks! They are both on the same planet though
I just mentally treat the instructor flights like the old reval certificate. I know when they expire (12 months for one and 24 for the other) and make sure I get them done before the deadline.

As I said, understanding the instructor flight need is not usually the problem. (Supporters of FAA style BFRs - which include an hour of ground education/training - please note!)
I have a few friends who are on LAPLs and they all understand this as well.

All the ones flying out of LAPL validity are self-convinced they understand the rules. You never know until you see the log book.
#1630273
It's pretty easy to look at the date of the last flight with an instructor, see that it's less than two years ago, and think that's OK. Are you saying that people have done a flight with an instructor in the last two years, it is in their log book, but it doesn't count for some reason?

I did a NPPL GST in November 2016 so that covers me until November 2018. I'm pretty confident about that.
Then I did SLMG to SSEA differences training in March 2017. Does that cover me until March 2019?
And tailwheel differences in November 2017, does that cover me until November 2019?

Then converted to a LAPL in March 2018. The currency requirements are inherited I believe so at least the GST still counts.

I'm not planning to take this to the wire, just curious if there's some gotya.
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By Irv Lee
#1630279
As @Paul_Sengupta points out later, I may have misunderstood the questions being asked, but here's what I said, just in case I didn't!
ChrisRowland wrote:It's pretty easy to look at the date of the last flight with an instructor, see that it's less than two years ago, and think that's OK. Are you saying that people have done a flight with an instructor in the last two years, it is in their log book, but it doesn't count for some reason?

Not sure whom you are asking, but the instructor hour certainly counts towards lapl validity, but is only one small part of it - in fact it is the most sensible part of lapl(a) validity, as if it goes beyond 2 years without a training hour, the solution is just to do it - unlike the PPL SEP but like the FAA BFR! What I am saying is that many pilots I have met do not have 12 hours P1 in the previous 24 months (p1 landings needed too) and yet still go flying/believe they are "LAPL- valid". Usually (but not always) they think they have to do 12 hours P1 at any time between the two instructor flights. It is usually the concept of having to do everything in the 24 months before EVERY flight that baffles them. And in their totals, they tell me they have so many take off/landings, and don't understand training ones don't count to lapl validity - but if they don't accept/understand the point of checking on previous 24 month flying is the day of any flight that they are about to make, it often hardly matters what counts!
I did a NPPL GST in November 2016 so that covers me until November 2018. I'm pretty confident about that.

And I guess you know that because the expiry date is written in your licence so you have a one stop shop to decide if the rating is current. Clear and hard to misunderstand by accident. I don't believe you would go flying using that particular rating after its expiry date.
Then I did SLMG to SSEA differences training in March 2017. Does that cover me until March 2019?

It doesn't cover you at all if you are talking about the NPPL. You need an SSEA rating which is not gained solely by differences training. It needs a test and an SSEA issue by the CAA.
And tailwheel differences in November 2017, does that cover me until November 2019?

Your instructor should (as part of the differences training)have told you the rules - differences training on sep/ssea is legal for life. Not saying he/she didn't, I forget things too.
Then converted to a LAPL in March 2018. The currency requirements are inherited I believe so at least the GST still counts.

Did you get a LAPL with SEP privileges written in it - have you checked? (If so, I guess the point earlier about getting an actual ssea rating into your NPPL is answered or I assume that they would only have given you a lapl with TMG privileges if you hadn't applied and paid for an SSEA rating previously... but mistakes are made at issue time - I seem to remember Muffin got money back after LAPL issue because I understood the rules and processes!).
Last edited by Irv Lee on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1630284
Irv Lee wrote:
Then I did SLMG to SSEA differences training in March 2017. Does that cover me until March 2019?

It doesn't cover you at all if you are talking about the NPPL. You need an SSEA rating which is not gained solely by differences training. It needs a test and an SSEA issue by the CAA.


He's asking if that training and test resets (sets...) the requirement for the instructor hour.

Irv Lee wrote:
And tailwheel differences in November 2017, does that cover me until November 2019?

Your instructor should (as part of the differences training)have told you the rules - differences training on sep/ssea is legal for life. Not saying he/she didn't, I forget things too.


But that should also reset the instructor hour, which is the question asked.
#1630302
Looking at my NPPL it has SLMG and SSEA ratings on it. These have expiry dates.

And looking at my LAPL(A) it has TMG and SEP ratings. These don't have expiry dates but the rolling validity applies.

There is no requirement for a test on the NPPL SLMG to SSEA differences conversion, just the training and log book entry, all sent off the with appropriate form and money of course. It's quite clear but easy to confuse with the microlight conversion requirements where a test is required. I printed the relevant pages and took it along to the examiner and he accepted it. The CAA issued the license. I expected the training to be to the standard where I could pass a test anyway.

As for the 12 hours I did that last month, mostly towing.

I looked at all this carefully and made sure that I had the bulk of what I'm going to need on my NPPL before getting the LAPL.
#1630375
Yes true, i had forgotten about the test (it not being needed). It is the rating issue that is the important bit that some ignore, and you didn't. . I have had so many calls about microlight to ssea this year i have the sequence "training, test, caa to issue rating" burnt in. The mistake is that they do conversion training, get log book sign off, but think it is "differences training" and never apply for rating issue. As you had a ssea rating properly issued to accompany the slmg, then the lapl would show both.