Polite discussion about EASA, the CAA, the ANO and the delights of aviation regulation.
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By renzokuken
#1512683
Hi All,

I have an NPPL (SSEA) licence which I got from converting from NPPL (M). I am planning to do direct "upgrade" to EASA PPL so I can do Night and (hopefully) CBM IR rating later.

It seems I just need to do 6 hours dual + 4 hours supervised solo training + Skill test as per CAP804. I've read some discussion in other forum, that some people encountered issues/long delay when they did this but it was few years ago. I wonder if any of forum member here has done it recently. Or maybe flying school who has done this for their students? I am keen to know potential pitfall here? is it better to apply for LAPL first (but I don't want to waste my time waiting for LAPL application and then do the training).

I live in west Hertfordshire, so would also appreciate any recommendations of good/experienced place to do this.

Regards,
Renzo

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NPPL(A)(SSEA) issued before 8 April 2018

PPL(A) with Single Engine Piston aeroplane endorsement

The holder of NPPL(A)(SSEA) seeking to convert directly to a PPL(A)(SEP)may do so by:

1) Satisfying the NPPL(A)(SSEA) to LAPL(A) (SEP) conversion requirements set out in this Part, and

2) Satisfying the LAPL(A)(SEP) to PPL(A)(SEP) training and testing requirements set out in FCL.210.A(b) & FCL.235, and

3) hold a valid Part-MED Class 1 or 2 Medical Certi cate.


point 1 refer to table below:

NPPL(A)(SSEA) issued before 8 April 2018

LAPL(A) with Single Engine Piston aeroplane endorsement

1. 2.

3.

Hold an NPPL(A) with SSEA rating;

Hold an LAPL medical certi cate (or Class 1 or Class 2 medical certi cate) issued in accordance with Part MED (MED.A.030). Any limitation arising from the holder’s medical status will appear on the medical certi cate;

To be issued with a UK Flight Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence an individual must ful l the EASA Language Pro ciency Requirements for Flight Crew at Level 4, 5, or 6. Whilst the pilot licence can be obtained without meeting EASA Language Pro ciency Requirements for Flight Crew, a person without a UK Flight Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence is not authorised to use a radio in an aircraft. The holder of an existing valid UK Flight Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence will be accepted as qualifying for a Level 4 (expiring) language pro ciency endorsement;


point 2 refer to:

(b) Specific requirements for applicants holding an LAPL(A). Applicants for a PPL (A) holding an LAPL(A) shall have completed at least 15 hours of ight time on aeroplanes after the issue of the LAPL (A), of which at least 10 shall be flight instruction completed in a training course at an ATO. This training course shall include at least 4 hours of supervised solo flight time, including at least 2 hours of solo cross-country ight time with at least 1 cross-country ight of at least 270 km (150 NM), during which full stop landings at 2 aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made.
User avatar
By Irv Lee
#1512717
Well as well as extra cost of lapl issue, more significantly at the moment, you will double the issue wait time for no gain (unless you want to go abroad), you can currently fly on the nppl
By renzokuken
#1512741
Irv Lee wrote:Well as well as extra cost of lapl issue, more significantly at the moment, you will double the issue wait time for no gain (unless you want to go abroad), you can currently fly on the nppl


Thanks Irv, is there any specific syllabus need to be followed during the 6 dual and 4 solo nav?
I guess mainly instrument flying and radio nav not covered in the NPPL(SSEA)/LAPL sylabus?

Regards,
Renzo
#1522084
I am in the same position as you right now and wish it was only that simple.

My understanding, and I have an email from the CAA on the subject, is that you have to do:

1. 10 hours more dual
2. 5 hours more solo PIC which will include a 150nm supervised navigation flight stopping
at min of 2 aerodromes and the best bit
3. All 9 PPL (A) exams (as I understand the NPPL (M) licence isn't EASA)

I've just done the exams so it's off for the 15 hours.

And yes, you'll need a night rating to start a CPL etc which again I understand is min 5 hours dual flight time with 3 hours ground school.

There'll be places to fly at Denham or Elstree, Herts right?

Good luck with it.
By renzokuken
#1522196
robertshinho wrote:I am in the same position as you right now and wish it was only that simple.

My understanding, and I have an email from the CAA on the subject, is that you have to do:

1. 10 hours more dual
2. 5 hours more solo PIC which will include a 150nm supervised navigation flight stopping
at min of 2 aerodromes and the best bit
3. All 9 PPL (A) exams (as I understand the NPPL (M) licence isn't EASA)

I've just done the exams so it's off for the 15 hours.

And yes, you'll need a night rating to start a CPL etc which again I understand is min 5 hours dual flight time with 3 hours ground school.

There'll be places to fly at Denham or Elstree, Herts right?

Good luck with it.


Hi,

Are you sure you understand the email correctly? My understanding is

if you have NPPL(m), you need to do 2 theory exam (aircraft general and principles of flight) and then 3 hours of dual, and then GFT and NFT to add SSEA rating to you NPPL. I did this last June.

from NPPL(SSEA) you can upgrade directly EASA PPL with 6 hours dual, plus 4 hours supervised solo (including nav), 5 hours P1 (non supervised) and GST.

Regards,

Renzo
By renzokuken
#1522322
robertshinho wrote:Where is the reference in CAP for only 6 hours instead of 10 hours?

I have an email from the CAA stating 10 hours plus 5.

If it's 6 then great.


(b) Specific requirements for applicants holding an LAPL(A). Applicants for a PPL (A) holding an LAPL(A) shall have completed at least 15 hours of ight time on aeroplanes after the issue of the LAPL (A), of which at least 10 shall be flight instruction completed in a training course at an ATO. This training course shall include at least 4 hours of supervised solo flight time, including at least 2 hours of solo cross-country ight time with at least 1 cross-country ight of at least 270 km (150 NM), during which full stop landings at 2 aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made.
By locomotion
#1608059
Just to add to this -

I (stupidly as it turns out) did a Night Rating on my NPPL and assumed that those hours would count as part of the 10 of "a training course". However, was informed that this will not count towards the PPL(A) upgrade because:

FCL210
"Applicants for a BPL, SPL or PPL shall complete a training course at an ATO. The course shall include theoretical knowledge and flight instruction appropriate to the privileges given."


Therefore, these 10 hours of instruction must be part of the PPL syllabus.

It seems I can't really dispute this, I was just trying to do something useful with my instruction hours but its rather set me back to square one. I just thought I'd put this in incase someone also makes the mistake of trying to do a similar thing.

If this is incorrect I'd appreciate someone letting me know so I can dispute the CAA.
By locomotion
#1611985
Bathman wrote:It's been like that since day one. The "upgrade" course is an "upgrade" course which is 10 hours long.

A night rating is a different couse as is an aerobatic rating etc


True - but the simple wording of the "training course at an ATO" is quite ambiguous.