Where have you been? What have you seen?
By peterh337
.
#1597959
This is a trip report on a flight down to Menorca, Spain

http://peter2000.co.uk/aviation/menorca/index.html

A very nice scenic location and it was a great fly-in. There are two possible runways - the big one at €200+ and another one which has no customs/immigration and "avgas for aeroclub members only" which costs almost nothing.
mick w, ConcordeBA, MichaelP liked this
By stodge
#1598260
As always very interesting - and to a newish IR pilot like myself who's only flown IFR so far to Corsica and northern Spain in my 182, very helpful. Thanks Peter!

Totally agree about crazy handling costs. I ended up flying to Valladolid and not Salamanca last year because the latter were quoting ridiculous ££££!

Btw suppose you don't have a video of the trip? Always good to hear ATC.
By peterh337
.
#1598266
No video; sorry. I had a passenger and in such cases I tend to not do videos because the cockpit conversation ends up in the sound track. Some people are understandably less than happy about this even if I tell them I will edit it out, and even if I do it I end up with a lot more work because I have to be extra careful to actually edit it out completely. If I fly on my own I have only my own talking to myself to look out for :)

Also the video in this case would have been rather boring. A crossing of France on this route at FL100-120 doesn't produce an interesting video - just fields and more fields and the odd little town. Mountains are always good but here we didn't really have any.

I wonder what has changed in Salamanca. In 2014
http://peter2000.co.uk/aviation/lesa/index.html
I spent €49 including 2 nights' parking.

If you want to hear ATC, here is a good bit, starting after 8 mins :)
http://peter2000.co.uk/aviation/bolzano/index.html
By stodge
#1598269
Yes - I can understand that - nobody wants to be on a private version of a cockpit voice recorder...

On Salamanca I seem to recall the figure I was quoted was substantially higher than 100 euros. They would not let me come without handling, and when I asked what exactly I was supposed to be getting for that extra money, they said - genuinely - clearing out aircraft rubbish! Valladolid were both much cheaper and far friendlier, if less convenient since it was the beautiful city of Salamanca where we were headed.

One quick question though: how do you safely mount your underwing camera on those videos you've done. It looks amazing! Is it a GoPro?
By peterh337
.
#1598274
Strong suction pads... Sony X1000, later X3000.

Salamanca is a fairly standard Spanish airport where no effort is made to attract those things called aeroplanes. They were built with EU money and are funded with money growing on trees... The tourist office at Zaragoza spoke Spanish only, for example. However, the problem with flying elsewhere is that you probably blow the €100 on transport trying to get where you want to go.
User avatar
By ConcordeBA
#1598306
The Value of an IR

I was reading this part, and I guess similar routing to Ibiza at FL100 can be done VFR on top in the Summer. I've got the IMC rating so would only need that part in the UK airspace arena.

But I am guessing I could fly VMC conditions at FL100 all the way to Ibiza except the UK portion of airspace which may be IFR.
By stodge
#1598370
I don't know about VFR in Spain since I've only flown IFR there, but France has lots of Class E up to FL115 which you can technically penetrate even without radio contact (though that would not be wise!). So as long as you can maintain VMC then I suppose you can do it that way, as long as you get on top through a big enough hole once you've crossed the FIR boundary to France (and get down the same way).

I've done it like that in the past, but believe me once you have the IR it's all so much easier! You don't need to worry about cloud (except for icing and CBs), you don't need to worry about controlled airspace or restricted areas, or parachute dropping zones, or nuclear power stations, or which frequency to go to next, or whether you're on a traffic service or a basic service, neither of which actually exist in quite the same form in France as they do here.... It's all done for you. And if the destination weather is 400 foot overcast, you just fly the approach. It's the way to go!
ConcordeBA liked this
User avatar
By nickwilcock
#1598384
Thanks for the trip report, Peter! It brought back many happy memories of life in 'La isla blanca y azul' back in the 1970s.

In my time there, a lot of the military installations such as La Mola were still active and many conscripts did their time on the island. The donkey cart taking rubbish away was often seen on the lane from Villacarlos (as it was then) towards San Luis - not the post popular task for the conscripts! Very rarely a large naval gun was exercised on La Mola; I recall seeing it elevated as we lived in Noria Riera and had a good view over La Mola, but I don't know whether it was ever fired.

Such was the pace of life in those days, that Miguel the local Villacarlos policeman could often be seen resting from his labours in one of the local pubs in Cala Fons. One day a car with a couple of German women tourists somehow ended up on the quay; Miguel put down his wine, got to his feet and puffed his way after it, waving his arms and blowing his whistle to the applause and encouragement of all those present. Then back to finish his glass of wine. Being a copper eventually became too much effort for him, so he took up life on a fishing boat instead.

San Luis airport was the original Menorca airport, hence the runway and old terminal. Always a nice place to pop in for 'lomo de cerdo con patatas fritas', of course with real garlic-flavoured mahonesa! They had a couple of ex-military AISA I-115 trainers at the Aero Club, but I thank that was all. Semi-aerobatic, but one was later lost.

The only military aircraft I ever saw over Menorca was a single Mirage F1C which flew down Mahon harbour at about 1000ft, not long after the type was introduced into service - presumably to show it to the island garrison?

I hope you enjoyed the odd glass or few of Xoriguer gin? It was so cheap when we lived there that we used it to clean the cassette player heads as it was much cheaper than cleaning fluid!
User avatar
By ConcordeBA
#1599021
stodge wrote:I don't know about VFR in Spain since I've only flown IFR there, but France has lots of Class E up to FL115 which you can technically penetrate even without radio contact (though that would not be wise!). So as long as you can maintain VMC then I suppose you can do it that way, as long as you get on top through a big enough hole once you've crossed the FIR boundary to France (and get down the same way).

I've done it like that in the past, but believe me once you have the IR it's all so much easier! You don't need to worry about cloud (except for icing and CBs), you don't need to worry about controlled airspace or restricted areas, or parachute dropping zones, or nuclear power stations, or which frequency to go to next, or whether you're on a traffic service or a basic service, neither of which actually exist in quite the same form in France as they do here.... It's all done for you. And if the destination weather is 400 foot overcast, you just fly the approach. It's the way to go!


I guess that's the way to go about it. I've got a non-equity share in a DA40 with extended range and I've not really used it to it's fullest abilities. Apart from a loo break, long flights across Europe seem like great fun and makes it far more accessible. The ultimate dream would be the Balearics, because for 1/10th the cost of getting there you can find a decent accommodation and self cater so it becomes far affordable.

I need to get my IR, but working out if I should do the IR theory or the full ATPL (As I'd like to do the flight instructor rating which requires the later) but a quicker route to the IR would be the IR theory then taking the ATPL theory (Which is a hell of a lot harder mind?)

I can do the the Competency Based Instrument Rating (CBIR) as I have an IR(R) and trying to boost my skills in that.
By stodge
#1599117
I did the CB-IR route having got the IR(R) - or IMC rating as it was then - several years previously. I never really used the IMC except to pop through a thin layer of cloud from time to time and enjoy the sunshine on top. All my (few) approaches were done in VMC.

The IR was an eye-opener, since we flew in every kind of weather. It was way way tougher than the IMC, but changed my flying in very fundamental ways for the better. If you can do it I would recommend it!
By peterh337
.
#1599646
BTW for an FI you need CPL theory, not ATPL theory.

Many will tell you the difference is just 1 exam (13 v 14) but the syllabus differs too and there is probably a 30% difference in the amount of swatting required, according to what I have been able to work out.

OTOH ATPL theory gives you a route to an airline / prof flying job, and HPA privileges.

IFR is *the* way to fly around Europe but you do need a capable plane, it has to be reliable and you have to be current in it (i.e. spend a bundle on avgas - like it nor not). Actually flying IFR around Europe with some reasonable currency is going to cost you *way* more than getting the IR.

Of course you could just fly IFR EGKA-LFAT and that is fine because London Control (you have to be FL070+ down there for them to accept you) hands you over to Lille for the LFAT IAP so it is all nice and smooth, but the hassle of getting the IR is wasted on that, and most people won't be going to LFAT in non-VFR conditions.

So one should not let the tail wag the dog. Go for the IR but only if you can use it.
ConcordeBA liked this
User avatar
By BlackheathBloke
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1600513
Nice trip, and destination photos.

I spent most of my childhood summers on the island, and one of the main reasons for getting my PPL was a trip to Menorca under my own steam.

It's a shame the airport has imposed these charges, it wasn't too bad a couple of years back. Goes against the ethos of the island govt (or maybe not) to limit mass tourism and to market itself to the more discerning traveller.

San Luis used to do a great lunch, a lot of the locals head there to enjoy it. Hopefully that's still going.

Good to see the photos of the caves in Cala'n Porter. I used to DJ there in the summers back in my late teens 8)
User avatar
By ConcordeBA
#1602478
peterh337 wrote:BTW for an FI you need CPL theory, not ATPL theory.

Many will tell you the difference is just 1 exam (13 v 14) but the syllabus differs too and there is probably a 30% difference in the amount of swatting required, according to what I have been able to work out.

OTOH ATPL theory gives you a route to an airline / prof flying job, and HPA privileges.

IFR is *the* way to fly around Europe but you do need a capable plane, it has to be reliable and you have to be current in it (i.e. spend a bundle on avgas - like it nor not). Actually flying IFR around Europe with some reasonable currency is going to cost you *way* more than getting the IR.

Of course you could just fly IFR EGKA-LFAT and that is fine because London Control (you have to be FL070+ down there for them to accept you) hands you over to Lille for the LFAT IAP so it is all nice and smooth, but the hassle of getting the IR is wasted on that, and most people won't be going to LFAT in non-VFR conditions.

So one should not let the tail wag the dog. Go for the IR but only if you can use it.


Hi Peter,

Problem is I have access to an IR equipped tourer but never use it. It would be really handy to have the IR and it's Jet A1 with extra range tanks, so 2 up with maybe a small person would get me 1000nm.

I have the IR(R) so plan on doing the CB-IR. So I don't need the ATPL theory? Only the CPL theory?
User avatar
By ConcordeBA
#1604492
peterh337 wrote:If I understand you right, you need neither. For the CBIR you need the CBIR theory which is something like 7 exams.

The following I believe.

STAGE 1 (CB-IR/E-IR)
Meteorology
Air Law & ATC Procedures
IFR Communications
Human Performance
STAGE 2 (CB-IR/E-IR)
Instrumentation
Radio Navigation
Flight Planning