For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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User avatar
By eltonioni
#1909715
Meantime, human ingenuity by grown ups will, as usual, solve the problems that these children literally can't comprehend. The interviews gave they while smashing things up clearly indicate that they think the everyone will be dead or as good as, in 20 years. They actually do believe this codswallop because they have been indoctrinated by adults who are no better than the Branch Davidians, Aum Sect, Moonies, or the Ku Klux Klan.
Flyin'Dutch', Cessna571, Nick and 3 others liked this
User avatar
By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909809
I saw some of this self filmed criminal damage and I seriously hope there is a way for the franchised garages to claim from these people. I am not hopefull however...
#1909828
eltonioni wrote:
> Meantime, human ingenuity by grown ups will, as usual, solve the problems
> that these children literally can't comprehend. The interviews gave they
> while smashing things up clearly indicate that they think the everyone will
> be dead or as good as, in 20 years. They actually do believe this
> codswallop because they have been indoctrinated by adults who are no better
> than the Branch Davidians, Aum Sect, Moonies, or the Ku Klux Klan.
And yet most of them do nothing, apart from whingeing, to help the problem. Those I know are not mindful of their own consumption at all.
StratoTramp liked this
By TomWW
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909832
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
> History is full of people behaving in manners incomprehensible to
> 'non-believers' for what is to them their just cause.
>
> Society meanders and continues to flow through the changing tectonic
> plates, and later on reflecting it shakes it head at either the behaviours
> of those seeking change or those resisting it.
>
> It was always thus.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Tis the way of the world.
User avatar
By Sooty25
#1909864
TomWW wrote:

>
> One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Tis the way of the world.

So, is an act of criminal damage, terrorism or freedom fighting? I guess it is defined by how the act affects those near by, but not directly involved in the action. Maybe the jury should be made up from the motorists and commercial drivers inconvenienced by the act, you would then get an indication of terrorism or freedom.
By TomWW
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909868
Sooty25 wrote:
> TomWW wrote:
>
> >
> > One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Tis the way of the world.
>
> So, is an act of criminal damage, terrorism or freedom fighting? I guess it is
> defined by how the act affects those near by, but not directly involved in the
> action. Maybe the jury should be made up from the motorists and commercial drivers
> inconvenienced by the act, you would then get an indication of terrorism or freedom.

You illustrate my point well. You would stack the jury with people who support your point of view. Well that’s why you make the suggestion. Thus illustrating that alternative, possibly entrenched, views are available.

I make no comment on who I agree with.
User avatar
By Mz Hedy
#1909904
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
> Maybe we should crimes be assessed by judges rather than a jury?
>

Of course following conviction it's the judiciary (judge or magistrates, as appropriate) who decide sentence, including any compensation orders, not a jury - juries just decide whether to convict or not.

(At least in England and Wales - I don't know about anywhere else)
User avatar
By eltonioni
#1909906
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
> Maybe we should crimes be assessed by judges rather than a jury?
>
> You would not get a group of '12 women and men true and good' operate on
> one's noddle either.


Nah, best not.

User avatar
By eltonioni
#1909980
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
> There are other jurisdictions where there is a proper implementation of the
> trias

Hmm, I'm really not convinced that we need to be "fixing" the UK's jury system so that appointed judges replace peer judgement.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ft-opinion
[quote]The US supreme court has provisionally voted to overturn Roe v Wade, the landmark ruling that legalised abortion nationwide in America, according to a draft opinion reported on by Politico.

In what appeared to be a stunning and unprecedented leak, Politico said on Monday evening it had obtained an initial majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito and circulated in the court on 10 February.

The opinion strikes down Roe v Wade, the court’s 1973 ruling that enshrined the constitutional right to abortion, and a subsequent 1992 decision – Planned Parenthood v Casey – that largely upheld that right.[/quote]

The same goes for "fixing" unwritten constitutions.
User avatar
By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1909981
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
> Maybe we should crimes be assessed by judges rather than a jury?
>
>
I'm not so sure of that:

I often sense a degree of perverse, almost mischievous, 'leftiness' in some of the pronouncements one reads from senior members of the judiciary.
Nick liked this
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By Sooty25
#1909997
TomWW wrote:
> Sooty25 wrote:
> > TomWW wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Tis the way of the
> world.
> >
> > So, is an act of criminal damage, terrorism or freedom fighting? I guess it is
> > defined by how the act affects those near by, but not directly involved in the
> > action. Maybe the jury should be made up from the motorists and commercial
> drivers
> > inconvenienced by the act, you would then get an indication of terrorism or
> freedom.
>
> You illustrate my point well. You would stack the jury with people who support your
> point of view. Well that’s why you make the suggestion. Thus illustrating that
> alternative, possibly entrenched, views are available.
>
> I make no comment on who I agree with.

You are right, it would be unfair, but it was also unfair on the motorist or lorry driver who may then not have been able to continue their journey or had to detour to find fuel elsewhere.

This example was neither terrorism or freedom fighting, it was just spoilt dicks thinking disruption is the way to get things changed that they don't like.

Well actually, in this country, we are all given a vote, we vote for the local politician than supports our beliefs and he takes that to Parliament and changes eventually happen. If nobody else supports your theories, well tough, you have to work harder to convince people next time, it's called democracy. Nothing on this scale can happen immediately, but the last 10 years has seen a huge shift to renewable energy and electricity as a motive force, there is only so much can be achieved at one time. What more do they genuinely think can be done?

This was blatant criminal damage and regardless of trial by judge or jury, they need to do time and pay for the damage.

Trial by Judge? no thanks, I'd trust a Jury over a Judge, just a shame the Colston case damaged jury credibility in the way it did. However, I think lawyers and Barristers should be held accountable if they withhold evidence or consciously distort the truth.
Aerials, Nick, Supercat liked this
By TomWW
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1910043
Sooty25 wrote:
> TomWW wrote:
> > Sooty25 wrote:
> > > TomWW wrote:

Loads of Blagh Blagh deleted for brevity.


> > I make no comment on who I agree with.
>
> You are right, it would be unfair, but it was also unfair on the motorist or lorry ……….
> This example was neither terrorism or freedom fighting, it was just spoilt dicks ………
> Well actually, in this country, we are all given a vote, we vote for the local
> politician than supports our beliefs …….
> Barristers should be held accountable if they withhold evidence or consciously distort the truth.

I never said it would be fair either.

My only point was that there are other points of view.

But I will comment on politicians. My MP is/was Neil Parrish. I certainly don’t think I got what I voted for. Mind you I didn’t vote for him anyway. :D :D :D :D

I’ve recently been reading a book about how poor the current law is from a barristers point of view. But there is supposed to be full disclosure as part of the legal process anyway.

I don’t have suggestions for reforming either politics or the law. (Well not any I’m going to voice here)

I was simple trying to point out there are other points of view and we should not assume we have a view that precludes any other. It’s often worth trying to understand other people.
By Cessna571
#1910059
What I don’t like is this new move to “We don’t like it, so we’ll smash your stuff up”

It’s like dealing with toddlers. Ever seen a 3 year old have a tantrum?

You can’t debate with these people and you can’t discuss with them.

I think it’s the influence of social media on them, it’s like they’ve taken trolling into the real world, because that’s exactly what they are, attention seeking toddlers/internet trolls.

They are also not very nice people, I’m fed up with not very nice people, there are way too many around.

I don’t mind the ones that admit they are not very nice people, criminals, bank robbers, rapists and the like. You know they are scum, they admit they’re scum.

It’s this new breed of “I’m being not a very nice person, but that’s ok”, person that doesn’t even admit what they are doing is not very nice.

They’re basically Jimmy Saville aren’t they? He’d be all over this. He was deluded. Thought he wasn’t scum.

They are definitely trolls though, look at the footage, the more they annoy you, the more exasperated you get, the more they smile.

The footage of the lady crying because she can’t get to her dying mother. They are smiling about it.

They are not nice people.

Anyway.. they are what they are, they are toxic people and we’ve always had toxic people in society.

We just need to start realising that’s what they are, rather than pretending they’re nice people.
eltonioni, Sooty25, Aerials and 3 others liked this
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