For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1905352
Having worked onboard, on the Larne - Cairnryan route for P&O (was a seasonal fast ferry - meant as a student I could work the whole season) I felt pretty well trained. As it was seasonal, we were checked by MCA at the start each year. They observed our emergency drills, asked us questions on what we were doing. Training I think was about a week (although I'm struggling to remember). Before onboard training we had to be qualified in a whole host of stuff (P&O put me through that) which was a 2 week residential course, including dealing with life rafts in a cold swimming pool and fire fighting.

Perhaps a bit different as there was plenty of prep for the start of the season, delivered by staff who already know the ship and procedures inside out.

The emergency systems on those ships (Highlander, Causeway), which were operating in parallel to the ship I was on, and some crew moved between ships, are similar, with many identical procedures.
For what needed done at my level, there would be no excuse for getting it wrong. It is pretty worrying about who they have employed if they didn't make the correct standard.

As an aside, after I left, the ship I was on was replaced with another which was crewed by agency staff. That was some time ago now - caused some friction at the time as people who had done (and been employed by P&O via a holding company) the same role for years weren't told of the change to use an agency, so by the time they applied for that year it was too late. The terms (as seasonal work) weren't as good, but not miles away from what I was paid.

My memory (from some time ago) is these ships (Highlander and Causeway) were crewed with 3 shifts: 1 sleeping, 1 active, 1 shoreside / off. Those onboard effectively live onboard for two weeks at a time doing 12 hour shifts. It becomes a home. Some people had been working onboard for 20+ years.
I feel incredibly sorry for those staff members. Yes they are being offered enhanced redundancy packages - but they should have at least been offered the opportunity to become agency staff.

P&O Ferries communication has been dire, with CEO saying what was done was illegal in the select committee, yet the press statements say it wasn't illegal. Working on a ship does involve different employment rules to normal - but there are lots of grey areas, especially if running a ferry between British Ports, in British waters. UK / EU (embodied in UK) employment law doesn't have an exception in it.

This is clearly a group who have calculated they can pay off their staff rather than consult / follow rules. Employment Tribunals tend to only give ex employees a month or two extra salary if procedures aren't followed. Clearly companies need much more strongly encouraged to treat employees right - and that encouragement need provided using a stick.
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By eltonioni
#1905365
Miscellaneous wrote:
eltonioni wrote:Ask me how I know.

I've cruised the Caribbean on a 3000 passenger P&O ship. The visit to the world below was close to the highlight. :wink: I can't say I regret doing so, but it wasn't for me really. I wouldn't say I'd never cruise again, but certainly not that sort of cruise. Too many people, and far too commercial. :evil:

Around the Arctic/Alaska I may make an exception, maybe even the QM2 as a mode of transport. But then its a liner.

Other than that the Hebridean Princess around the Scottish Isles intrigues. As does this cruise on her.

3k pax is a much bigger ship than we've ever been on. I couldn't imagine anything like it. Mind you, the new mega ships look like amazing engineering feats but Butlins at sea (I accept that's not really P&O's style) or anything with children on board, especially thousands of them, doesn't appeal to us.

We've only ever done two. The first was a real cheapie "let's give it a go what have we got to lose" West Indies cruise on a small 30 year old ship between weeks in a hotel. It was pretty close to being in Carry On Cruising and much to our surprise we enjoyed it, especially the "which beautiful Caribbean Island is behind the curtains this morning" side of things.

The second was three weeks in a very fancy suite (with aforementioned butler and a proper bath) on a smaller adults only P&O ship (1000 pax ISTR) with a Madeira > WI transatlantic crossing in the middle. That was eye wateringly expensive (for us at the time) but utterly spectacular from the brass band, ticker tape and champagne departure at Southampton to the mid-Atlantic deep black star studded night sky, with the sea lit up by the efflorescence in the wake disappearing into the distance over those impossibly massive rollers. Mrs E loved that P&O still had formal dinner with formal dinner dress. Very little time was spent totally sober due to the accommodating staff and a rather cheeky white rioja that was served to huge reclining leather chairs in what, I was told, would be the kiddies play centre on the sister ship . :D

It's certainly not for everyone, but the whole rhythm of a grown up ship crossing a big ocean for days is a fine thing to settle into and I can imagine enjoying a few more when we're older and have more time. If you haven't done a transatlantic crossing maybe give it a go, it's a good one to have on the life list.

Hebridean Princess - definitely intriguing, might look into that.
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By kanga
#1905371
<going with the cruising drift :oops: , a plug for these, on which some of my Labradorian relatives and contacts are 'cultural guides':

https://www.adventurecanada.com/atlanti ... d-labrador

Meanwhile, but without straying into politics, I am not reassured to read that a significant change in the law or regulation concerning seafarers' employment was made by or under the esteemed Mr Grayling :?

</>

.. but back to question in the Thread Title:

In the XR quashed conviction case which I cited earlier, it is when CPS believes and Magistrates' Court agrees there's a crime, but Appeal Court disagrees. That is the judicial machinery at work as it should be, although to some observers also apparently 'irrationally', within the Common and Statute Law. Only Parliament can change the latter. IANAL, but as often in such cases, an issue is 'proportionality', of both defendant's and prosecutors' actions. That is always a tricky judgement. I have concerns, but they do not make me apoplectic, and on balance I'm glad that we have such a judicial machinery rather than having unchallengeable convictions based on CPS, Magistrates, press or even infinitely wise Forumites alone.
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#1905377
eltonioni wrote:If you haven't done a transatlantic crossing maybe give it a go, it's a good one to have on the life list.

The notion I have is to fly to the west coast of North America, maybe San Diego and travel north to Vancouver, then cross the continent on the surface before taking the QM2 home. I believe sailing in a liner is a very different experience (sailing wise) to a cruise ship.

eltonioni wrote:Hebridean Princess - definitely intriguing, might look into that.

She intrigues me year on year as I come across her over the season, occasionally chatting to passengers. In fact only yesterday I did a couple of orbits of her moored off Plockton. :D

As for XR, :pukel: :pukel:
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1905391
While we were waiting for our house to be built and with loadsa house money in the bank we really pushed the boat out and did our first ever P & O cruise from Southampton to see the Northern Lights Couldn’t fault it: Flunkeys everywhere and proper dressing up for dinner at a table of very 6 nice other folks . ( but with the option of ‘a deux ‘ if we felt like it.)
It was ‘kin cold inside the Arctic Circle but we were well prepared with all the right gear . The N Lights were un believable . My only bitch was the 48 hour sea crossing each way (fortunately the notorious N Sea was as flat as a mill pond both ways ) with nothing much to do except get quietly rat ar sed.

Would we do it again ? Nah, - except perhaps a fly/cruise to eliminate the sea ‘transit’ . (‘ but we’re supposed to be cruising ‘ dear was my wife’s response to my moans) :wink:
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By Rob P
#1905395
I have done a Fjord cruise also.

In itself it was moderately enjoyable, but no force on earth would persuade me back on another cruise, even before they became famed as plague ships. Picking your way through the zimmer frames palls as entertainment after the first day.

Rob P
StratoTramp liked this
#1905408
Rob P wrote:...but no force on earth would persuade me back on another cruise, even before they became famed as plague ships. Picking your way through the zimmer frames palls as entertainment after the first day.

Oh, never say never, Rob. As I understand it you're not so far from being reliant on a zimmer frame. You'll fit right in in the short term! :wink: :D
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By eltonioni
#1905963
It's probably time to dream up a specific offence of actions which disrupt infrastructure and installation thereof. It will save an awful lot of disruption, money and time, not least of which in the courts with this silly merry-go-round.
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By kanga
#1906119
StratoTramp wrote:Russian funded watermelons.
Putin's useful idiots.


I have seen no evidence that XR, IB or analogous groups are 'Russian funded''. However, <as a relevant history nerd :oops: >, agree that their activities suit very well the traditional NKVD's Comintern (and their Trotskyist analogues, the Fourth International) playbook of using overt sympathisers and covert 'front' organisations to create societal unrest at moments when a bourgeois target society might be vulnerable. Not only the blocking of roads but a widespread spate of gorse fires (which might also, of course, be a coincidence; merely a consequence of a current high fire risk possibly aggravated by some individuals' carelessness) could similarly be part of such a ploy. I have no doubt that such doctrine was still being taught in the KGB Academy when Putin was an Officer Cadet. Obviously, Putin now acts in the name of Russian nationalism not Soviet internataional socialism, but the tools and their uses will not have changed... However, I still find it easier to assume idiocy rather than sponsored conspiracy :?

On 'Today' this morning there was an interview with the maker of this documentary, which I haven't seen, but in which XR activists (fully aware she was there) did themselves no favours by unguarded discussion of tactics and 'moral justifications':

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11390302/

Again (from the interview), I gathered that there was more (arrogant) idiocy than ideology involved.
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1906145
Yeah, you are correct, But the second statement is true regardless :lol:

Still they are quite happy smear and invent narratives so why not do the same :thumleft:

Admittedly doing the same doesn't help fix a post-truth world.
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By kanga
#1907461
Two possibly pertinent news stories today:

"Edward Colston statue case sent to Court of Appeal"
(Attorney General seeking Court guidance)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-61081824

"Insulate Britain: Judge 'inspired' by activists after M25 protest"
(Judge applies the law and imposes fines, but may change own habits)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-61085689
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