For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By AndyR
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1881174
Just having this debate at home.

New boiler required (newly fashionable heat pump out of range price wise). Gas or electric is the biggest question there.

Loft insulation already in place. Cavity wall insulation already in place. Solar panels require too large a capital investment.

So really it is a case of turn down the thermostat, try to get Mrs R to stop leaving the kitchen window open for the blasted cats :roll: and put on extra layers as far as I can make out. There’s only so much most of us can do.
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By avtur3
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1881177
Similar discussion in our house ... For instance, Mrs A values her bath every night, moving into retirement years we had thought that some of the creature comforts in life (like her bath) would be a reasonable expectation. We're double glazed, LED lights, draught free, loft insulated, cavity wall insulated, there is not much more we can do to our '50's built house.

The things that could be improved are the boiler, (it isn't a condensing boiler) and we have a gas Aga cooking range, which is about to be turned on for the next 6 months, The Aga 'leaks' a great deal of heat into the house, which slightly reduces the demands on the central heating,

We are, I suspect like many, in a position of being capital rich (property value) but cash poor. So the costs of replacing the boiler and the Aga are not something we can consider, the cost of running our inefficient systems is just about manageable and so is likely to be our ongoing solution.

I suspect our position is not uncommon.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1881181
Cats and fellow house users can be re-trained!

:D

The AGA we had in our UK house made up for half the gas bill, it enhanced the sale price of the house I suppose. I don't miss it and I recently looked at what AGA is doing and even they have moved with the times.

:
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By Sooty25
#1881201
AndyR wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Cats and fellow house users can be re-trained!

:D

:


Been trying for over ten years and failed so far. :roll: :lol:


Load cats in car.
Remove collars.
Drive 30-40 miles.
Release cats.
Close window.
Deny all knowledge. :thumleft:

Note - Plan may fail if microchipped.
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#1881204
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:That's a lot of electricity for that size house and people.

Have you changed all incandescent bulbs to LED, add timers or movement sensors to all the rooms where one is temporary only and an iron regime of switching it off when leaving. Unless you have a heat pump, never ever use electricity to heat.

If you're cooking on electricity other than an induction hob, chuck and replace. If you have an old electric oven replace. Reduce cooking in oven.

Chuck old clothes drier and replace with one with a heat pump.

Draught proof all doors and windows. Replace all single pane windows with double glazing, Close curtains as soon as it is dark. If you have an open fire get a flap mounted in the one you use, and close it when not in use. Those not in use; seal.

Everyone put on an extra jumper. Shower shorter and baths are a treat.

External cladding is usually not great as it promotes damp/mould but eltonioni will know more.

Loft insulation easier/cheaper. There will sans doubt be some government support for something like that?


The challenge of your suggestion for many being the cost of carrying them out being unaffordable. Not to mention the cost of making the changes often being multiples of the savings. :wink:
#1881209
And in the UK quite a lot of homeowners are prevented from taking those, simple, steps because they either live in a listed building or some sort of "conservation" area. I am all for retaining historic buildings and keeping our towns pleasant - but not at the cost of homes that are now unsuitable for modern living.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1881212
@Sooty25 - I think your plan might backfire here - I would be swimming with the fish; besides I love our cats.

@Miscellaneous - a fair few deliver cost savings immediately; fewer baths and shorter showers, and putting on a few extra layers, drawing curtains.

But, you are right, as always in life those who have some money find it easier to make some more than those with less; the unjust system of inflated prices for those who have pay as you go meters the top of the list. Why are they not common place in other countries?

@Flyingfemme Indeed that does happen, we live in a market town here and they tried to stop me putting solar panels on the roof, I pointed out that although the area was a conservation area, our house is in a street where the oldest artefact indeed is yours truly. A short fight with the local planning officer ensued but he was over ruled by a bigger cheese in the county who understood that denying me permission, when we were having 35C plus days and the kids started doing the' Fridays for Future' was not going to do down long for well and this bloomin' foreigner wasn't going to take a 'no' on the chin.

The stipulation was that they had to be flush with the roof rather than on an ungainly frame but that was no hardship.
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By OCB
#1881249
Mrs OCB does her weekly visit to her office tomorrow, and mini-OCBs are back at school, so tomorrow will be fitting of Tado system. At least with that I'll have more control over the heating.

@Flyin'Dutch' - all good advice, but most are already in place.
I should get round to replacing the oven and hob tbh, but almost all lighting has been LED for quite some years, dryer has been heat pump system for the past 7 or 8 years (onto our 2nd one now), house is modern 20mm double glazed (except for the veranda which got made into an extension, it's 10mm but I have blinds which help a lot) + house has good roof insulation etc.

As @Miscellaneous mentioned, most of the improvements we could make would cost multiples of the savings - so even though there are no low hanging fruit, I am now looking at ideas.

Energy reduction:
Real-time electricity usage monitor - one that feeds into Home Assistant or similar. Low cost/high benefit.

As I'll probably be getting an EV in the near future, will be looking to completely replace my main board and add night meter. Ideally, I’d like to have reporting out of each circuit breaker for power consumption for that circuit - but I’m probably wishing for too much there! Cost - moderate/benefit - well, mainly depends on me getting an EV TBH.

Real-time reporting for gas usage. Nothing I’m aware of “off-the-shelf” and actually available for my analog meter. Will be (re)introducing camera system to record meter. This time though I’ve found an Instructibles type solution that uses raspberryPi + cloud based AI for number recognition + it hosts a small DB and dashboard. Will be doing the same for my water meter as well.

DIY house thermal survey. I’ve been toying for years with the idea of getting IR camera add-on for my iPhone (e.g FLIR ONE). I think now is the time to release my inner geek ;)

Smart lighting for the problem areas (aka the areas the kids leave the bliddy lights on constantly…). Probably not worth it in terms of cost/benefit since lights are only a few watts - but again, my inner geek will enjoy it.

New oven and hob. This would entail an entire new kitchen - so…err, definitely not cost effective.

External cladding. Jury is still out on that one.

Various minor tweaks around the house, like curtain behind the already draught-proofed front door etc. Low cost - but Mrs OCB appears to have an impassible blocker on such things based on aesthetics.

Other
Already mentioned, either PV or mix PV and PT roof panels - both would benefit from fitting of an immersion heater. If I fit an immersion heater, I'd be tempted to construct a ground source loop to uplift incoming water's temp a bit. Cost - high. Payback period would be 8-12 years.

Wood burning “cassette” - a high efficiency burner for the living room. Cost - moderate to high, benefit would mainly be in comfort. Price per kWh for wood where I am is in theory attractive - but I believe the reality is I need to dry a sufficient volume of wood for a couple of years before it genuinely becomes economical.

Ground source/air to air heat pump. V.high cost, payback 15+ years. As the radio adverts say here about such systems, you’re buying the system for your kids!

WFH “somewhere hot” during winter…. :D
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1881256
OCB wrote:DIY house thermal survey. I’ve been toying for years with the idea of getting IR camera add-on for my iPhone (e.g FLIR ONE). I think now is the time to release my inner geek ;)

I tried this. Some success, but overall not that useful.
You need to be able to distinguish between retained heat and heat loss.
For example if i went out tonight and looked the house, the brick would show as warm, the windows cold. It's not that heat is leaking out through the brick, just it's spent all day absorbing heat that it's now releasing back out. I think you can only really do the thermal survey during a sustained cold spell.
It was useful to spot the blown double glazed unit.
No use at spotting draughts.

what it was useful for was walking round the house finding electrical devices wasting electricity on standby
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By Grelly
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1881307
If you have a chimney but don't use it, consider a chimney balloon. I was on the roof changing the battery in the weather station up there and was genuinely appalled at how much heat was coming up the chimney.
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By AndyR
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1881314
Rob P wrote:@AndyR

Invest in a cat door?

Rob P


Front door is a double door so mega spend for dual doors fitted with cat flaps. Side door, not convinced at security of a car flap in a single door I must admit.

And there are too many of the damn furry things in the neighbourhood, so then we would be into persuading Mrs R to get them to wear collars with ID chips for entry systems.

I prefer the drive them 100 miles away solution :wink: :twisted:
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