For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
#1878162
This is currently doing the rounds on Twitter...



My 17yr old daughter just said “if one person dies from a prop gun in a movie set, everyone talks about its safety relentlessly but when kids die from mass shootings in schools, it’s not a big deal. It’s unbelievableBroken heart” - how about no one should die from gun violence?


Hard to fault the point really.

G
A4 Pacific, lobstaboy, Flyingfemme and 1 others liked this
#1878188
Genghis the Engineer wrote:This is currently doing the rounds on Twitter...



My 17yr old daughter just said “if one person dies from a prop gun in a movie set, everyone talks about its safety relentlessly but when kids die from mass shootings in schools, it’s not a big deal. It’s unbelievableBroken heart” - how about no one should die from gun violence?


Hard to fault the point really.

G


I'd have though 'intent' might have some bearing on message intended from this otherwise well-meant statement. :wink:
Rob L liked this
#1878193
PeteSpencer wrote:News report this morning said that crew used that gun for target practice during their down time with live bullets . :shock:

Also another report that the firearm expert on set , a young lady with a double/barrelled -oops :oops: - name and daughter of a well known arms expert and armourer allegedly admitted on social media a few days ago that she didn’t know what she was doing, :roll:


That probably demolishes my earlier theory.

What on earth were they thinking. Shameful performance of the armourer.

Clearly cowboys both sides of the camera. So sad.
#1878222
PeteSpencer wrote:I'd have though 'intent' might have some bearing on message intended from this otherwise well-meant statement. :wink:


Several possible lines one can take on that.

- If there are no loaded firearms, you can't shoot people with them either accidentally or deliberately.

- The pursuit of solutions should arguably put its priorities where the body count is highest. In order that probably starts with murders, followed by suicides, followed by accidental shooting of kids by other kids. Then some way further down you can put a negligent discharge on a movie set.

Tragic 'though this incident clearly is, it's equally clearly a one off. School shootings, accidental shootings in the home, the USA's gun-suicide rate aren't.

G
Rob P liked this
#1878555
@Genghis the Engineer

Kinda hear y’a.

At 15, I started shooting firearms in a club. The club attitude was strict, but we all knew “worst case”’could happen (but didn’t).

18 months or so later, a female school friend got shot and her boyfriend shot in the heart and killed by some random nutter with a licensed firearm and a grudge against reality. It was hard to internally justify “shooting for fun” after that, and it still pains me to think how that shattered her life, and that of her boyfriend’s family and friends etc.

A few short years after that, a guy I had been training with regularly got himself killed in a bodyguard training incident- blank firer. It was a bit before the Brandon Lee incident, but similar circumstances.

I was, and still am of the opinion the fate of my training colleague was “shot happens”. I try to feel guilty about it - but I can’t. Sure, it’s sad and tragic - but we were adults, we trained (and taught) both the safe handling and lethal use of weapons on a near weekly basis.

In his example, him and the guys he was training with pushed past the accepted safety limits to increase realism, and he lost his life. Bad luck, but founded on bad judgement.

Same goes for my feelings about the shooting of this lass. Bad luck, but founded on bad judgement.

Simple protocol - if at any point a weapon is to be pointed at someone, both parties take the few seconds required to examine the weapon. If either party doesn’t know a blank round from a real one - then neither party should be handling any type of firearm.
#1878587
I'll throw my 2c into this one as a firearms holder here in the UK and I've spent the last 12 years working on films sets, often closely with the armourers for part of my job. The reports are that a live round was in the gun, which seems reasonable since it travelled through the DOP and then into the person behind. It was a rehearsal for a shot with the point of view aimed at the camera.

In this instance, a blank is usually used so that there is movement of the gun, it's slide and a muzzle flash. We often enhance/create the flash in post (vfx) but making the gun move in the hand like that is a much bigger job than just adding flashes. There is always a clear shield in front of the camera and, depending on the range, the camera and operator may be wearing additional protective equipment and the entire camera rig may be wrapped to prevent dust/particles getting everywhere.

The armourer handles the firearm. No-one else is usually allowed to touch them. Ever, except for the actors. This is very strictly controlled. I've never seen an armourer not prove a gun was clear when handing it to them or going through the necessary motions to load and check weapons. We're very, very careful about procedures when guns are on set and the crew are briefed about the scene ahead of time.

On the set of Rust, as I understand it, the 1st AD grabbed a gun from a table just off set, called 'Cold Gun' and handed it to Mr. Baldwin. We know what happened next. I've never worked in the US but that's something that wouldn't happen here. Calling cold gun without proving it just isn't a thing.

The 1st AD in question, who's had previous complaints against him for safety protocols, just should never have touched that firearm because he doesn't have the proper training. They were apparently behind schedule and had been doing 17 hours days and crew had recently walked off set because of the punishing schedule. Ridiculously long days are one of the worst things about the industry, I've regularly worked 90 hour weeks plus travel time and people are tired and make mistakes. Maybe this was one of those but it's symptomatic of the industry as a whole.

As to why it had a live round in, on set, is another question and the idea that people were using that firearm for target shooting is staggering, No armourer would let the crew do that in the UK. Cowboys in more than one sense it would seem.
Kittyhawk, OCB, Boxkite and 4 others liked this
#1878638
Very interesting @SafetyThird.

I wonder, reading what you've said there, if being part of a culture where everyday firearms possession and handling is much more normal, lends itself to a much more lapsadaisical attitude towards them than in the UK where firearms are almost always only handled or stored in a relatively specialised and controlled environment? Clearly that doesn't justify it, but may explain it.

G
Sooty25, SafetyThird liked this
#1878952
So, in normal-speak, a bullet? What a mess their unamendable amendments have caused. I wonder if this might be some kind of catalyst for reform or if it's just yet another wasted life that will be forgotten.
Rob P liked this