For help, advice and discussion about stuff not related to aviation. Play nice: no religion, no politics and no axe grinding please.
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By Propwash
#1878178
Loco parentis wrote:Our Monarchy has always been the abode of privilege.

Republicanism is a perfectly respectable position to support, and I know from years of experience that trying to persuade supporters of it that there is virtue in our system of constitutional monarchy is rarely fruitful. However, it is worth noting that it is supported happily by people on all sides of the political spectrum, as the huge politically and socially eclectic crowds that regularly turn out for Royal events demonstrate, in a way that a political head of state never would be. Politics is by definition divisive and in many countries, the USA being the most notable, the divisions are becoming ever deeper and more polarised. Whatever individual feelings towards the government of the day in the UK, the head of state here can still be a figure that everybody (less Republicans :lol: ) can unite behind precisely because it is not political. That is valuable. I was always mindful of the distinction as well that I served the Crown and not the government of the day, as do the armed services, and that is not just semantics but a valuable safeguard.

As for privilege, I am not at all sure that too many people would regard the level of scrutiny, lack of privacy, restricted freedoms and work schedule at the age of 95 as that, more of a burden they wouldn't choose to shoulder themselves.

As for looking around at various presidential countries for inspiration to follow, it might first be a good idea to investigate just how many elected presidents have been found to be involved in corruption or criminality of one sort or another in recent years. More than one French president, at least one German and another from Ireland, and that is just off the top of my head. I'm very happy to stay with what we have, thanks all the same. :lol: :salut: Fortunately I think that a large majority of the population agree with me.

PW
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By lobstaboy
#1878181
Making a comparison between a US president such as Trump and the British monarchy is clearly a nonsense.
The Queen doesn't run the country. We have our own elected ****er to do that.
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By Sooty25
#1878194
lobstaboy wrote:Making a comparison between a US president such as Trump and the British monarchy is clearly a nonsense.
The Queen doesn't run the country. We have our own elected ****er to do that.


But they are (were) both heads of state representing their countries on the world stage. I doubt Trumpy held the respect of many other heads.
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By lobstaboy
#1878199
Sooty25 wrote:
lobstaboy wrote:Making a comparison between a US president such as Trump and the British monarchy is clearly a nonsense.
The Queen doesn't run the country. We have our own elected ****er to do that.


But they are (were) both heads of state representing their countries on the world stage. I doubt Trumpy held the respect of many other heads.


True enough. So the US can get rid of the head of state if it chooses every four years. We can't.
We are lucky that the current monarch does indeed do a good job of representing our country on the world stage. But what would have happened if she had been a duffer?
And just because she is good at the job that is not a reason to say that the job itself is necessary or appropriate in the current form. I mean the job of Head of State should not be in the form of a hereditary monarchy.
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By Sooty25
#1878206
lobstaboy wrote:We are lucky that the current monarch does indeed do a good job of representing our country on the world stage. But what would have happened if she had been a duffer?

We may just find out in a few years time!


And just because she is good at the job that is not a reason to say that the job itself is necessary or appropriate in the current form. I mean the job of Head of State should not be in the form of a hereditary monarchy.


Our hereditary Monarchs will have been trained in their role since birth, granted Queenie got thrust in rather early, but they are not some chancer billionaire buying a go in the seat!
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By lobstaboy
#1878212
Sooty25 wrote:
lobstaboy wrote:We are lucky that the current monarch does indeed do a good job of representing our country on the world stage. But what would have happened if she had been a duffer?

We may just find out in a few years time!
!


:)
Well you said it, not me.
Of course back in the day we used to change monarchs much more often. They used to die in battle (last one was Richard III) or get their heads chopped off.
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By Rob P
#1878229
lobstaboy wrote:Making a comparison between a US president such as Trump and the British monarchy is clearly a nonsense.


Quite so. I was answering this piece of nonsense

Loco parentis wrote:If you are looking around for ideas how to assemble an elected, meritocratic Head of State, check out the USA


I was struggling with "meritocratic"

Rob P
By Loco parentis
#1878257
I apologise if you 'struggled' with what can only be, on any account, a simple and uncomplicated definition of 'meritocratic'. In keeping with Fowler's advice, I try always to simplify.

One thing for sure, by almost any definition, our inherited Monarchy does not occupy its place in these islands by merit.
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By eltonioni
#1878280
Loco parentis wrote:Quite a lot of Americans seemed to like him !


So much so that they tried to start a civil war in January. ;)



Here's the 2020 top/bottom 5 of the Democracy Index. You'll note the trend.

2020 Rankings
Top 5 Country Score
1 Norway 9.81
2 Iceland 9.37
3 Sweden 9.26
4 New Zealand 9.25
5 Canada 9.24

Bottom 5 Country Score
163 Chad 1.55
164 Syria 1.43
165 Central African Republic 1.32
166 Dem. Republic of Congo 1.13
167 North Korea 1.08


https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2020/
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By Bill McCarthy
#1878283
There is absolutely NO doubt - all those that mock our monarchy would be the first in line at the gents outfitters to get measured up with top hat and tails for their date with the palace, if put forward for an honour
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By lobstaboy
#1878299
Bill McCarthy wrote:There is absolutely NO doubt - all those that mock our monarchy would be the first in line at the gents outfitters to get measured up with top hat and tails for their date with the palace, if put forward for an honour


I do not mock the monarchy. It is simply an inappropriate thing for a 21st century democracy.
I definitely would turn down an honour if put forward for one. Twice during my career I've been asked to meet members of the royal family and I refused to do so.
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By Sooty25
#1878300
To be honest, this 21st century democracy you rave about isn't so wonderful. I'd happily go back to the last one.
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By Rob P
#1878304
I think this might be breaking protocol but I thought that I might share the exact words I said to Betty a few years back.

"'scuse me luv, can I just squeeze through here?"

I hope next time I recognise her :oops:

Rob P
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By lobstaboy
#1878305
Sooty25 wrote:To be honest, this 21st century democracy you rave about isn't so wonderful. I'd happily go back to the last one.


Haha! Yes indeed.
I meant "for what is supposed to be a democratic country in the 21st century."
I certainly don't hold up how things work here as an example to anyone.
Does talking about our electoral system count as politics I wonder? I'll assume it does, so you're spared me ranting about that.
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By Rob L
#1878313
Loco parentis wrote:Quite a lot of Americans seemed to like him !


Not enough last time then, obviously :roll: .

About time this thread got shut down please.
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