[avtur3]

There is currently a shortage of HGV drivers to the extent that there are empty supermarket shelves, this isn't a short term problem, it is as a result of a perfect storm that has been in the making for years and where none of the stakeholders of this problem have been willing to act.

For many years demand for HGV drivers has been met by using drivers recruited through agencies. It has been a race to the bottom line in terms of wages and employment conditions. In days gone by there were more jobs than people, which fuelled the race to the bottom.

Distribution drivers are an absolute essential to the way or economy works, but having said that the basic laws of supply and demand determined that drivers were in plentiful supply so the reward package was pretty dismal.

Now, compounded by the effects of Brexit, Covid it appears that HGV drivers are in demand. All of a sudden it appears that there is a value to HGV drivers that hasn't previously been considered.

I have an absolute passion for driving, I gained my HGV 1 licence over 40 years ago, and even to this day my passion is not diminished. I have driven all types of legal combinations on the road and and many types that way exceed UK road going limits. (80,000kg tankers in Kazakhstan was probably my high point)

In recent years, not withstanding that I have run an aviation consultancy business, I have driven HGV's for fun (part time for a local transport company) simply because I enjoy driving. Because of this I totally understand the frustration of present day HGV drivers.

The tachograph is exactly what it was portrayed to be, a spy in the cab. Every second of both work and driving activity is recorded on the tachograph and then automatically analysed by computer, this means that an infringement of even one second of the drivers hours regulations is recorded. Penalties can then be applied by the employer or the DVSA.

The working conditions of HGV drivers can often be inhumane. You start your day with a full load and a computer generated 'run sheet', which takes no account of real world conditions on the road, so you are working against the clock all day and you can't even stop for a pee, you roll up to a distribution warehouse, either delivering or collecting and find that drivers have no access to toilets or water. And until recently you did that for minimum wage ... which was £8.72 per hour, since April it is £8.91 per hour, 20 p per hour increase ... don't spend it all at once!

Now we are in the perfect storm in the driving industry, no EU drivers, current UK drivers giving up because they are fed up, no new drivers coming into the industry. Because of this pay rates are actually increasing, with some of the larger fleets offering a £1,000 sign on bonus. the problem is that that is simply moving experienced drivers around the industry, nothing is being done to recruit new blood. That is an aside to the fact that there is a massive backlog of drivers waiting for tests, and even then there is a massive reluctance (usually justified by insurance requirements) to employ newly qualified drivers.

The younger working generation appear to have little appetite for a job that doesn't pay well, where your performance is measured to the last second, where you are under pressure to push the limits of of legal operation and where you may find yourself denied the comfort of using a toilet and having access to water; actually why would anyone regard this as a good career choice.

Everyday life in the UK is totally reliant on road transport, the backbone of which is the HGV distribution network which feeds the small HGV and none HGV driver workforce. There is already talk of product shortages on the run up to Christmas, that isn't scare mongering it is real, the driver shortage has been allowed to develop over many years, there is no silver bullet that can offer a quick fix. Experienced drivers will go to the highest bidder, those businesses that can't afford to bid in this situation will simply not be able to operate.

[CloudHound]

My trip round the M25 yesterday was very revealing.

Hardly any HGVs both morning and afternoon. But vey heavy car traffic. I’ve never experienced such an imbalance of types on a motorway.

[David Potts]

There is currently a shortage of HGV drivers to the extent that there are empty supermarket shelves, this isn't a short term problem, it is as a result of a perfect storm that has been in the making for years and where none of the stakeholders of this problem have been willing to act.

For many years demand for HGV drivers has been met by using drivers recruited through agencies. It has been a race to the bottom line in terms of wages and employment conditions. In days gone by there were more jobs than people, which fuelled the race to the bottom.

Distribution drivers are an absolute essential to the way or economy works, but having said that the basic laws of supply and demand determined that drivers were in plentiful supply so the reward package was pretty dismal.

Now, compounded by the effects of Brexit, Covid it appears that HGV drivers are in demand. All of a sudden it appears that there is a value to HGV drivers that hasn't previously been considered.

I have an absolute passion for driving, I gained my HGV 1 licence over 40 years ago, and even to this day my passion is not diminished. I have driven all types of legal combinations on the road and and many types that way exceed UK road going limits. (80,000kg tankers in Kazakhstan was probably my high point)

In recent years, not withstanding that I have run an aviation consultancy business, I have driven HGV's for fun (part time for a local transport company) simply because I enjoy driving. Because of this I totally understand the frustration of present day HGV drivers.

The tachograph is exactly what it was portrayed to be, a spy in the cab. Every second of both work and driving activity is recorded on the tachograph and then automatically analysed by computer, this means that an infringement of even one second of the drivers hours regulations is recorded. Penalties can then be applied by the employer or the DVSA.

The working conditions of HGV drivers can often be inhumane. You start your day with a full load and a computer generated 'run sheet', which takes no account of real world conditions on the road, so you are working against the clock all day and you can't even stop for a pee, you roll up to a distribution warehouse, either delivering or collecting and find that drivers have no access to toilets or water. And until recently you did that for minimum wage ... which was £8.72 per hour, since April it is £8.91 per hour, 20 p per hour increase ... don't spend it all at once!

Now we are in the perfect storm in the driving industry, no EU drivers, current UK drivers giving up because they are fed up, no new drivers coming into the industry. Because of this pay rates are actually increasing, with some of the larger fleets offering a £1,000 sign on bonus. the problem is that that is simply moving experienced drivers around the industry, nothing is being done to recruit new blood. That is an aside to the fact that there is a massive backlog of drivers waiting for tests, and even then there is a massive reluctance (usually justified by insurance requirements) to employ newly qualified drivers.

The younger working generation appear to have little appetite for a job that doesn't pay well, where your performance is measured to the last second, where you are under pressure to push the limits of of legal operation and where you may find yourself denied the comfort of using a toilet and having access to water; actually why would anyone regard this as a good career choice.

Everyday life in the UK is totally reliant on road transport, the backbone of which is the HGV distribution network which feeds the small HGV and none HGV driver workforce. There is already talk of product shortages on the run up to Christmas, that isn't scare mongering it is real, the driver shortage has been allowed to develop over many years, there is no silver bullet that can offer a quick fix. Experienced drivers will go to the highest bidder, those businesses that can't afford to bid in this situation will simply not be able to operate.

There is also the issue of the average age of a HGV driver being mid to late 50’s. Those above the average age won’t be willing to carry on much longer, especially given current conditions you described, in turn increasing the shortage

[avtur3]

There is also the issue of the average age of a HGV driver being mid to late 50’s. Those above the average age won’t be willing to carry on much longer, especially given current conditions you described, in turn increasing the shortage

Good point, I should have mentioned that currently the average age of an HGV driver is 55 ... and due to the lack of new blood in the industry this age is increasing.

There is a trickle of new blood into the industry supported by folks who have been involved in transport in the military and have left to find employment in civvy street. I've seen this in my own industry, we get some first class people joining and they are brilliant to work with. However the numbers are just a trickle.

[Josh]

The younger working generation appear to have little appetite for a job that doesn't pay well, where your performance is measured to the last second, where you are under pressure to push the limits of of legal operation and where you may find yourself denied the comfort of using a toilet and having access to water; actually why would anyone regard this as a good career choice.
.

Sounds like Ryanair…

[Kittyhawk]

Sounds like Ryanair…

I don’t think even Ryanair expect the flight crew to sleep in the aircraft and defecate in plastic bags…

[Paul_Sengupta]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58394903

Tom Reddy has been driving lorries for more than 15 years and his pay was recently increased from £17.50 an hour to £24.50 - a 40% jump.

[Flyingfemme]

It's not just the headline wage - it's the number f hours, how they are organised and the working conditions.

I have a Class 1 but have never used it for work........but I have driven a heavy vehicle all over the country and it was a miserable experience. You can't park that here/there! Roads way to narrow for the traffic they get, stupid traffic calming schemes, teeny roundabouts and tw@s in cars who seem to compete to get into your blind spot and cause problems.

It's also a perfect candidate for the "gig economy"; owner/drivers, choose how much you work and who you work for. But the government and IR35 have put a stop to that. God forbid workers should have any autonomy.

[avtur3]

I have a Class 1 but have never used it for work........but I have driven a heavy vehicle all over the country and it was a miserable experience. You can't park that here/there! Roads way to narrow for the traffic they get, stupid traffic calming schemes, teeny roundabouts and tw@s in cars who seem to compete to get into your blind spot and cause problems.

I'm in a slightly different place, I can easily accept all of the practical challenges while driving, if I am running close to 44 tonnes with 40,000 litres of road fuel on board I don't care what driving challenges are put in front of me, I'll enjoy dealing with them.

What I do care about is being able to find somewhere to stop when the tachograph tells me I have to and that when I stop there are are toilets and water available. The reality is that toilets and water are not available for a huge number (possibly even the majority) of drivers.

[Miscellaneous]

...(possibly even the majority) of drivers.

What %age do you estimate to be on the minimum wage?

How do you suggest toilets are provided at all places a tachograph may tell you time is up?

[avtur3]

...(possibly even the majority) of drivers.

What %age do you estimate to be on the minimum wage?

How do you suggest toilets are provided at all places a tachograph may tell you time is up?

In today's climate I hope that there are less drivers on minimum wage than when I was last driving regularly.

I think your challenge about toilets is rather unjustified, if you are trying to say that toilet facilities are not important then I presume you would be willing to work in such an environment yourself?

I know your are known for plain speaking but seriously, are you OK with the idea that toilet facilities are not important?? To be honest I'm quite offended by your comment. I take it that you have full control of your bodily functions to where you can hold on for hours and hours on end.

For the avoidance of doubt I am telling you that drivers are denied access to toilet facilities even when they exist, for example in large logistics distribution centres, if you are OK with that the I don't know what to say.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Same problem we have in aviation; no investment for the greater good.

It's coming to come and bite us.

[TheFarmer]

@avtur3 , I don’t think @Miscellaneous was suggesting that toilets aren’t important. My take on his comment was that if the tacho (as you say) controls you to the very last second, how can it be possible for there always to be toilets at that exact point when it tells you to park up.

I see his point.

[Miscellaneous]

...(possibly even the majority) of drivers.

What %age do you estimate to be on the minimum wage?

How do you suggest toilets are provided at all places a tachograph may tell you time is up?

In today's climate I hope that there are less drivers on minimum wage than when I was last driving regularly.

I think your challenge about toilets is rather unjustified, if you are trying to say that toilet facilities are not important then I presume you would be willing to work in such an environment yourself?

...are you OK with the idea that toilet facilities are not important??

I'm rather bewildered at your response, Avtur. There is no intention to offend, although to be honest I'm struggling to understand what offends.

My take on your post is that you may be a little biased. I have never driven for a living and have limited experience and knowledge of the job, however the little experience I do have does not reflect yours. Sure at the bottom end, van delivery drivers wages, are/were hovering around the minimum wage, however for Class 3 and up I think you would be hard stretched to find any significant number of drivers on minimum wage over, say, the last 15yrs. Like you I quite enjoy driving and occasionally did so for the 'fun'. Prior to moving here I worked as an adhoc recovery driver for the garage 5 mins walk from home. It was fun and rewarding primarily helping out tourists who couldn't;t keep their cars on the black stuff and I did it for a tenner an hour. I also used to keep an eye on the driving agency websites and on one occasion actually called them. Within 24hrs they were back on asking if I could do a week delivering for Bookers in Oban. This was 2016 and whilst I cannot remember what I was paid I know it was not minimum wage, and that's an agency.

Here you go, enjoying the trip on the Corran ferry to go deliver to hotels, cafes, shops.


It was hard work and to be fair there was a sense of not being valued. When I responded to one customers remark about another new driver with the comment 'I won't be back' her response was they all say that. That was a bit of a wake up call, some people have to do it! I was in the lucky position that I could pick and choose what jobs to accept. However it turned out that I only did that week (despite being offered 6 months work whilst on that job). It transpired Driver Hire had subcontracted their payroll and drivers were deducted £25 admin fee for the privilege of being paid. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I refused to accept payment from the 3rd party as I had never been advised and on principle didn't work for them again.

In summary, I acknowledge the conditions leave a lot to be desired, however I don't accept your suggestion of large numbers working for the minimum wage, nor consider your expectation of toilet facilities anywhere a tacho says 'time up' as realistic. As far as your comments regarding my view on the importance of toilets, well, I'll just leave it with no more to add to @TheFarmer's post.

Now, here's the punchline. I'm presently working as a trainee bus driver learning the routes…….for minimum wage. But that's another story.

Mods, I've just noticed this thread is in General Aviation.

[patowalker]

Talking of drivers and toilets. Boss hired a minibus with a toilet, so we wouldn't have to stop on the way from Luxembourg to Amsterdam. Good idea, except the driver had to make a mandatory stop.